Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou

[rob77dp]

Link, I think you're definition of "randomly lynching" may be the issue here. Yesterday was not randomly lynching... The games past which you linked to were randomly lynching via die roll, rng, and the like -yesterday wad just trying to sus out a lynch candidate with limited information. Not the same thing.

Do you have any scumreads or town leans yet, Link?

[rob77dp]

In those links, I see you supporting no lynch rob. Clarify. (You too Ian, and UT)

this is pretty weak... Feels like a scum trying to look solvey or involved while just poking around.

[Linkcat]

Link, I think you're definition of "randomly lynching" may be the issue here. Yesterday was not randomly lynching... The games past which you linked to were randomly lynching via die roll, rng, and the like -yesterday wad just trying to sus out a lynch candidate with limited information. Not the same thing.

Do you have any scumreads or town leans yet, Link?

You say that but provide no evidence for it.

I'll get to my reads later.

[rob77dp]

Link, I think you're definition of "randomly lynching" may be the issue here. Yesterday was not randomly lynching... The games past which you linked to were randomly lynching via die roll, rng, and the like -yesterday wad just trying to sus out a lynch candidate with limited information. Not the same thing.

Do you have any scumreads or town leans yet, Link?

You say that but provide no evidence for it.

I'll get to my reads later.

literally past games featured chat die rolls and use of random.org -- > randomly lynching. Yesterday had none of that -- > not transit lynching. You're being obtuse about it.

[rob77dp]

Mobile >.<
Transit --> random

[Coffeeditto]

Spoiler for Rob:

I do not have as complete a reads list as usual - citing this infuriating chore of pushing back on bad-for-town play being pushed in the thread - but here is what I can offer up.

scumreads:
Link

Spoiler for Hidden:

I can't get my mind around the idea that we've gone through over 20 pages and still don't have any scumreads.

I think you're scum... or more accurately not Town.

Sub, you can move your vote to No Lynch now.

Is nobody else bothered by the fact that this man has 5 votes on him when he's made literally 2 posts since the game started?

You seriously cannot find any kind of reason to suspect someone even close to where 40% chance to lynch scum on Day 1 interests you?

I think you might be scum here -- can you point out even one past instance where you so staunchly stood up for No Lynch like this?

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, JonathanCrazyJ, fabian771
Submachine (3) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto,
Linkcat (1) - rob77dp
No Lynch (4) - Linkcat, worldwideweb3, Lunaris, Submachine[conditional] <-- what even IS THIS conditional stuff?? If you're absent at EOD then you're absent... I've no idea of any precedent and nothing in rules about this.

dd

Spoiler for Hidden:

I'm finding, in a re-read of EOD and night-so-far activity, that dd puts a scumvibe out there with constant focus on mechanics and putting in very little in the way of solving effort (looking for scumreads from him - found none yet). Some players maybe this is simply the best town-play they could do but for dd I expect much more. Sorrynotsorry your bar is higher dd. I think you're struggling to FOS anyone and it looks scummy to me.

Sol

Spoiler for Hidden:

@rob - Why should I vote Sol? Because he's less not-scummy than Sub?

@Link - Why should I not jump on the train against Sub? How is rob contributing to the problem by trying to do that?

Sort of yeah -- mostly, Sub's was a runaway wagon when I first lobbied for Sol to get more votes. I find the fact that basically nobody was willing to hop to Sol but piling on Sub happened without much sustained push in-the-thread to be somewhat telling. I'll have to mull over just how telling.

This is the weakest of my scumreads right now... and has been trending towards 'stale'. That is, weakening due ot nothing else supporting it occurring.

dawn

Spoiler for Hidden:

Hmmm, it feels strange... (not sure if strangely right or strangely strange) but I find myself leaning scummy for dawn given his typical M.O. is to slank the hee-haw out of the game, if not totally 0-post the whole thing, and show up late to try hard. I remember a while back, forget who with though, thinking that usually scum!dawn is more easily engaged in the game.

Bringing that meandering to point here: I am leaning scum on dawn right now given his involvement already with more than a one-line post and more than 0 posts. I hesitate to go much with it today because it feels like punishing activity -- the LAST thing I want to do.

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, Submachine, rob77dp
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3
Submachine (4) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto, JonathanCrazyJ
Linkcat (1) - Linkcat
mathman101 (1) - ddevans96

Towny:
JCJ / ian / DC (grouped to #1 neener neener @ www3; #2 they have similar foundations for why I'm townreading them)
UTA
Espi
Sub
...
*gulp*
& www3

www3 - I'm reading through your town-game in Elements Mafia 65 a couple months ago... it doesn't match what I'm seeing from you this game. This is called a meta-read. In combination with my intuition telling me your motivation this game is also not showing towny it makes this a not-slight scum-lean on you.

Multiple occasions that game you vote with intent to lynch and base it on "reverse vote" (AKA OMGUS), instincts, and instinct but here you're suddenly NOT ok with even giving opinions on players without reading the thread, having some kind of study hour moments, and then putting out a list.

Just put out your instinct's top scum read.

It's easier to have opinions when the game has low post count, and you dont have to read as much. If i was mafia, do you really think i would take this long just to give a reads list, considering you even put me as town for a bit before?

This doesn't add up.

I can explain later - suffice to say my scum-lean on you is getting stronger/heavier.

Can I ask why you have flipped from the people in the prior post to focus on Sub, then dropped that scumread for little reason, then softed Sol, and landed on W3? I guess what I'm trying to say here is who do you actually think is scummiest right now, because you have more people on your scumlist then there are mafia in the game.

Spoiler for My opinion on NL:

At this point, I'm beating a dead horse, but just for clarification purposes;
No Lynching D1 if there is a day start is good.
No Lynching D1 allows abilities to be used by every player before we lose an important town role in the case of a mislynch.
No Lynching D1 leaves the assumption that mafia will kill N1. In the case of this game, there are 18 players, with 7 non-town or 4 strictly mafia. Assuming intelligence sides with the town, that is 13 vs. 4. If we really fuck up horribly consistently, and mislynch every day, in 4 day/night cycles it will be 5 town/other party vs 4 mafia meaning we will have the numerical advantage, especially considering we will land on a day.
No Lynching D1 is not bad because 1/4 is not good.

Spoiler for KDZ:

Alright, so I read the thread since ive been gone. Here are my thoughts as of now

The intelligence team is not a direct threat to the town. This should not be considered as no threat, the INT team is going to try to be peacekeepers for as long as humanly possible, adding information primarily to do one of three things
1. clean up some mafia. Less mafia means you have to suck up to less people
2. Save the mafia. Later in the  game, the INT team is likely going to try to help the mafia survive if things start heading south for them.
3. generally suck up to everyone, and promote peace and nolynches for all. Really, the no lynch thing will prolly be axed now that we have this drama going on about it, but the smart move for the INT team is to delay this game as long as possible, and later, push votes on people they dont plan to interact with.

This is in stark contrast with the mafia who, as we know, wants to kill us all. The mafia are a direct threat, with direct consequences for their continued life. From this I gotta draw that the mafia are worse than the INT team, and agree a bit in part with www3. Of course, I'm still aware the INT team is a threat to us, we still have to axe them where we can, and they are in no way shape or form another town. Theyre bad for us, but theyre not /as/ bad. I think it is unwise to throw them in the same boat as the mafia, just as it is equally unwise to discount them as a threat.

People time now
Submachine seems like a mildly paranoid town, mostly because hes yelling about people ganging up on him. I dont think hes mafia. not sure if hes INT or town, as being such a center of attention he is very unlikely to be nightkilled by the mafia, and only slightly more likely to be lynched. Either a great INT play, or a natural town play.

www3 Is pretty scum. He makes a partial point about INT, but at the same time, sounds heavily like a INT member, OR a mafia member pretending to be INT.

Linkcat: His posting late in the day was enough to make me think twice about my votes on sub, not because I supported the no lynch, but because I couldn't really support a sub death, as he was looking more and more town. Linkcat has a big INT read for me, as I said above; he fits the peacekeeper very well.

Rob: I'll literally never trust rob, mostly because the meta talk really sways me to distrust him. Its his playstyle, so I can't really fault him, but at the same time it makes reading him legitimately a great challenge.

Ian: Ian threw up some red flags. He posted a throwaway vote on d2d, then railed against the no lynch movement, and gave us the threat of his AFK. It felt more like a bandwagon on the "hate the no lynch train" with rob and JCJ, and less of a legitimate opinion. this isn't enough to really justify anything, just a slight scum read

JCJ: neutral, seems to have genuine feelings on the no lynch discussion. However, his reasoning for sub feels slightly scummy, I agree with him, the invis text is incredibly BM, and really annoying, but that doesn't make sub mafia or INT. Which realistically is the only reason to vote on someone. I think linkcats post on why the no lynch was a good idea sums up my feelings to an extent, that submachine was voted on for being submachine

If you want information from me on specific people, or more specific thoughts in general, go ahead and ask and I'll answer while im on. The above are just the major players in my mind right now, or players i have thought about.

I townread Sub as of right now as well; putting that out there. My only question is, why does Sub defending himself frantically give you a town/INT read on him? Is that not something mafia would do more often, especially considering they need to do it more?

Hi guys.

Group question: how valid is it to base claims off of differences in playstyle between games?

Rob plz

[killsdazombies]

Thanks for the quick answer; I follow that line of thought and think I agree; a scared deer/bear/what have you accusing many people very minimally makes sense.

In regards to part 2, who's to say a mafia won't just copy their playstyle from when they were towny?

Thats part of why it works though. Standard Town Play =/= You are a town, however New Scummy/New playstyle in general notes a change. That change is likely to be primary role oriented, and thus is an indication of suspicion.

Just because you act like your standard town, doesn't mean your town, but acting in a new way is an indication you may be a mafia member.

[Linkcat]

Lynching without a legitimate reason is the same as lynching randomly. Votes were cast on people with the higher vote totals irregardless of who happened to have those votes. It's the same.

[UTAlan]

My reads-update-post is gonna have to wait until morning. Sorry, too tired now that I'm done working.

[rob77dp]

Spoiler for Rob:

I do not have as complete a reads list as usual - citing this infuriating chore of pushing back on bad-for-town play being pushed in the thread - but here is what I can offer up.

scumreads:
Link

Spoiler for Hidden:

I can't get my mind around the idea that we've gone through over 20 pages and still don't have any scumreads.

I think you're scum... or more accurately not Town.

Sub, you can move your vote to No Lynch now.

Is nobody else bothered by the fact that this man has 5 votes on him when he's made literally 2 posts since the game started?

You seriously cannot find any kind of reason to suspect someone even close to where 40% chance to lynch scum on Day 1 interests you?

I think you might be scum here -- can you point out even one past instance where you so staunchly stood up for No Lynch like this?

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, JonathanCrazyJ, fabian771
Submachine (3) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto,
Linkcat (1) - rob77dp
No Lynch (4) - Linkcat, worldwideweb3, Lunaris, Submachine[conditional] <-- what even IS THIS conditional stuff?? If you're absent at EOD then you're absent... I've no idea of any precedent and nothing in rules about this.

dd

Spoiler for Hidden:

I'm finding, in a re-read of EOD and night-so-far activity, that dd puts a scumvibe out there with constant focus on mechanics and putting in very little in the way of solving effort (looking for scumreads from him - found none yet). Some players maybe this is simply the best town-play they could do but for dd I expect much more. Sorrynotsorry your bar is higher dd. I think you're struggling to FOS anyone and it looks scummy to me.

Sol

Spoiler for Hidden:

@rob - Why should I vote Sol? Because he's less not-scummy than Sub?

@Link - Why should I not jump on the train against Sub? How is rob contributing to the problem by trying to do that?

Sort of yeah -- mostly, Sub's was a runaway wagon when I first lobbied for Sol to get more votes. I find the fact that basically nobody was willing to hop to Sol but piling on Sub happened without much sustained push in-the-thread to be somewhat telling. I'll have to mull over just how telling.

This is the weakest of my scumreads right now... and has been trending towards 'stale'. That is, weakening due ot nothing else supporting it occurring.

dawn

Spoiler for Hidden:

Hmmm, it feels strange... (not sure if strangely right or strangely strange) but I find myself leaning scummy for dawn given his typical M.O. is to slank the hee-haw out of the game, if not totally 0-post the whole thing, and show up late to try hard. I remember a while back, forget who with though, thinking that usually scum!dawn is more easily engaged in the game.

Bringing that meandering to point here: I am leaning scum on dawn right now given his involvement already with more than a one-line post and more than 0 posts. I hesitate to go much with it today because it feels like punishing activity -- the LAST thing I want to do.

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, Submachine, rob77dp
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3
Submachine (4) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto, JonathanCrazyJ
Linkcat (1) - Linkcat
mathman101 (1) - ddevans96

Towny:
JCJ / ian / DC (grouped to #1 neener neener @ www3; #2 they have similar foundations for why I'm townreading them)
UTA
Espi
Sub
...
*gulp*
& www3

www3 - I'm reading through your town-game in Elements Mafia 65 a couple months ago... it doesn't match what I'm seeing from you this game. This is called a meta-read. In combination with my intuition telling me your motivation this game is also not showing towny it makes this a not-slight scum-lean on you.

Multiple occasions that game you vote with intent to lynch and base it on "reverse vote" (AKA OMGUS), instincts, and instinct but here you're suddenly NOT ok with even giving opinions on players without reading the thread, having some kind of study hour moments, and then putting out a list.

Just put out your instinct's top scum read.

It's easier to have opinions when the game has low post count, and you dont have to read as much. If i was mafia, do you really think i would take this long just to give a reads list, considering you even put me as town for a bit before?

This doesn't add up.

I can explain later - suffice to say my scum-lean on you is getting stronger/heavier.

Can I ask why you have flipped from the people in the prior post to focus on Sub, then dropped that scumread for little reason, then softed Sol, and landed on W3? I guess what I'm trying to say here is who do you actually think is scummiest right now, because you have more people on your scumlist then there are mafia in the game.

-snip-

Hi guys.

Group question: how valid is it to base claims off of differences in playstyle between games?

Rob plz

Snipped for brevity and clarity of interaction.

Your "Rob plz" is laughable. Kdz pretty accurately addressed the "base claims [I presume you mean reads, claims are something else entirely] off of differences in playstyle between games". I second his response.

I didn't flip from people in a prior post to focus on Sub - the posts you are quoting are after I moved on from Sub to other suspects. Landed on www3? I voted Link at the end of the day so not sure what you mean by stating that I landed on www3? Your series of questions there is a mess, Coffee.

I am most suspicious of:
Link
dd
dawn
www3 - currently my top suspect
Sol - lowest suspicion among those on this list

[rob77dp]

Lynching without a legitimate reason is the same as lynching randomly. Votes were cast on people with the higher vote totals irregardless of who happened to have those votes. It's the same.

Wrong.

Also, you don't get to define "legitimate reason" for other players. You also suppose yourself to know all the motives behind the votes yesterday. You don't. Start solving and looking for scum.

TRUE random lynching is slightly less negative for town than No Lynching. There was no true random lynching occurring or on the table yesterday.

[Coffeeditto]

Spoiler for Rob:

I do not have as complete a reads list as usual - citing this infuriating chore of pushing back on bad-for-town play being pushed in the thread - but here is what I can offer up.

scumreads:
Link

Spoiler for Hidden:

I can't get my mind around the idea that we've gone through over 20 pages and still don't have any scumreads.

I think you're scum... or more accurately not Town.

Sub, you can move your vote to No Lynch now.

Is nobody else bothered by the fact that this man has 5 votes on him when he's made literally 2 posts since the game started?

You seriously cannot find any kind of reason to suspect someone even close to where 40% chance to lynch scum on Day 1 interests you?

I think you might be scum here -- can you point out even one past instance where you so staunchly stood up for No Lynch like this?

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, JonathanCrazyJ, fabian771
Submachine (3) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto,
Linkcat (1) - rob77dp
No Lynch (4) - Linkcat, worldwideweb3, Lunaris, Submachine[conditional] <-- what even IS THIS conditional stuff?? If you're absent at EOD then you're absent... I've no idea of any precedent and nothing in rules about this.

dd

Spoiler for Hidden:

I'm finding, in a re-read of EOD and night-so-far activity, that dd puts a scumvibe out there with constant focus on mechanics and putting in very little in the way of solving effort (looking for scumreads from him - found none yet). Some players maybe this is simply the best town-play they could do but for dd I expect much more. Sorrynotsorry your bar is higher dd. I think you're struggling to FOS anyone and it looks scummy to me.

Sol

Spoiler for Hidden:

@rob - Why should I vote Sol? Because he's less not-scummy than Sub?

@Link - Why should I not jump on the train against Sub? How is rob contributing to the problem by trying to do that?

Sort of yeah -- mostly, Sub's was a runaway wagon when I first lobbied for Sol to get more votes. I find the fact that basically nobody was willing to hop to Sol but piling on Sub happened without much sustained push in-the-thread to be somewhat telling. I'll have to mull over just how telling.

This is the weakest of my scumreads right now... and has been trending towards 'stale'. That is, weakening due ot nothing else supporting it occurring.

dawn

Spoiler for Hidden:

Hmmm, it feels strange... (not sure if strangely right or strangely strange) but I find myself leaning scummy for dawn given his typical M.O. is to slank the hee-haw out of the game, if not totally 0-post the whole thing, and show up late to try hard. I remember a while back, forget who with though, thinking that usually scum!dawn is more easily engaged in the game.

Bringing that meandering to point here: I am leaning scum on dawn right now given his involvement already with more than a one-line post and more than 0 posts. I hesitate to go much with it today because it feels like punishing activity -- the LAST thing I want to do.

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, Submachine, rob77dp
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3
Submachine (4) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto, JonathanCrazyJ
Linkcat (1) - Linkcat
mathman101 (1) - ddevans96

Towny:
JCJ / ian / DC (grouped to #1 neener neener @ www3; #2 they have similar foundations for why I'm townreading them)
UTA
Espi
Sub
...
*gulp*
& www3

www3 - I'm reading through your town-game in Elements Mafia 65 a couple months ago... it doesn't match what I'm seeing from you this game. This is called a meta-read. In combination with my intuition telling me your motivation this game is also not showing towny it makes this a not-slight scum-lean on you.

Multiple occasions that game you vote with intent to lynch and base it on "reverse vote" (AKA OMGUS), instincts, and instinct but here you're suddenly NOT ok with even giving opinions on players without reading the thread, having some kind of study hour moments, and then putting out a list.

Just put out your instinct's top scum read.

It's easier to have opinions when the game has low post count, and you dont have to read as much. If i was mafia, do you really think i would take this long just to give a reads list, considering you even put me as town for a bit before?

This doesn't add up.

I can explain later - suffice to say my scum-lean on you is getting stronger/heavier.

Can I ask why you have flipped from the people in the prior post to focus on Sub, then dropped that scumread for little reason, then softed Sol, and landed on W3? I guess what I'm trying to say here is who do you actually think is scummiest right now, because you have more people on your scumlist then there are mafia in the game.

-snip-

Hi guys.

Group question: how valid is it to base claims off of differences in playstyle between games?

Rob plz

Snipped for brevity and clarity of interaction.

Your "Rob plz" is laughable. Kdz pretty accurately addressed the "base claims [I presume you mean reads, claims are something else entirely] off of differences in playstyle between games". I second his response.

I didn't flip from people in a prior post to focus on Sub - the posts you are quoting are after I moved on from Sub to other suspects. Landed on www3? I voted Link at the end of the day so not sure what you mean by stating that I landed on www3? Your series of questions there is a mess, Coffee.

I am most suspicious of:
Link
dd
dawn
www3 - currently my top suspect
Sol - lowest suspicion among those on this list

Sorry for saying 'Rob plz'?

Just for clarification, my use of 'landed on W3' referred to your current pressing on him.

Thank you for answering, though.