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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258938#msg1258938
« Reply #348 on: March 08, 2017, 07:37:09 am »
I didn't really address this earlier but I should have - why do you consider the Intelligence scum, rob?
If the faction is not my faction... And I am not aware of them being pro to my win-con... Then they're 'scum' in my book until shown otherwise. I've tried to differentiate where it seemed possibly important on anything I-veead posting.
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Offline ddevans96

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258939#msg1258939
« Reply #349 on: March 08, 2017, 07:43:33 am »
I consider them extremely vital to our win-con, as I would if I were mafia. While ideally they would remain neutral and only play for their own win-con, it is very possible and very likely for them to influence the game strongly, and that can be done in a number of ways. As such, I don't agree with treating them as scum. If I did I wouldn't have abstained from voting.

You've posted the most and so presumably have read the most. While I've read all posts until now, I haven't looked into many in depth. Now that I'm at my laptop for the night, which posts should I look further into and/or respond to?
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Offline ddevans96

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258940#msg1258940
« Reply #350 on: March 08, 2017, 07:46:07 am »
Addendum to first paragraph of previous post - I agree with this:

Fwiw, it's better for intelligence team to lynch and try kill Mafia ( to prevent Mafia from killing them/end the game quicker)

To clarify, if I were Intelligence, I would be inclined to work with town rather than against them, as support of my point.
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Offline ddevans96

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258941#msg1258941
« Reply #351 on: March 08, 2017, 07:51:07 am »
-rare dd triple post-

And in regards to letting mafia/Intelligence make the first move - sometimes it's better to go second. In the case of mafia, if the lynch happens first mafia can then play off that lynch and use NK to frame/push/mislead, while if the NK happens first, although they can still do this with discussion, it's generally not as powerful as with a lynch, because the lynch is the strongest thing in the game.

In other words, I find there to be plenty of information from both no-lynch and lynch in most day start games, which is why I no longer always have a preference, hence my post earlier.
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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258942#msg1258942
« Reply #352 on: March 08, 2017, 08:09:23 am »
Ah right, forgot about this for a bit.

@iancudorinmarian @fabian771 @worldwideweb3 @Linkcat @ddevans96 - If your votes are placeholder/bread-posting/anything-other-than-voting-on-likely-scum, you are hurting town by spreading out votes. If you actually think that person needs to be lynched but haven't explained why, please do so. Otherwise, at least remove your vote or - even better - put your vote on someone you think *is* scummy.

Spreading votes doesn't necessarily hurt town. It can easily, yes, but there's a couple things in play here.

First of all, this mafia has no day-use abilities, so I see no way for the first-day vote to be influenced by them - in other words, what you see is what you get.  There were no options I really cared for. Like I said, I didn't want to break the tie at the time, nor add to it by voting for Link, I didn't want to push anyone into a tie with Link either, and as it's literally start-of-game I had no scumreads. That pretty much left just straight up choosing to vote on something with none, or not vote. I did the former and then when you requested did the latter, because it straight up didn't really matter to me.

Then, if it did come to be important, I was fully intent on being able to change my vote at any time before EOD (I forgot how long intermissions were when I initially signed off for the night). So really, the vote was just symbolic, I just read up the sign-up list and picked the first person I had any interaction with in this game, who happened to be mathman, in an attempt to draw a little more discussion. That's (meaningless or near-meaningless votes, I mean) not atypical for first-day votes, especially from me - discussion can be pushed in a variety of ways, after all, and the actual result of the first lynch rarely matters. Just the discussion it provokes.

I don't really see how I could have hurt town with any of that, admittedly. Could you elaborate on why you feel it could?

ddevans96 - Doesn't initially vote b/c he doesn't want to throw his vote away. Adds throwaway vote. I ask him not to do that, he obliges, though with a disclaimer that he disagrees with my logic. Not much here, but I'll give him a very-very-slight-town-read based on gut feeling.

Appreciate the use of instinct, it's important and overlooked often in mafia.

As for not wanting to put up a throwaway vote, maybe I wasn't clear, but I didn't want to do so that early in the phase. I was comfortable doing so later in the phase, but I really had no strong preference, so like I said above I removed it when you asked.
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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258944#msg1258944
« Reply #353 on: March 08, 2017, 09:11:32 am »
One more silly "no lynch" day and I'm afk-ing.

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258945#msg1258945
« Reply #354 on: March 08, 2017, 09:14:16 am »
I spend like 3 breaks between classes to read like 20 pages, then "no one was lynched", despite there being quite a few suspicions.

Most, if not all, players on the "no lynch" are scum from my point of view.

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258947#msg1258947
« Reply #355 on: March 08, 2017, 11:44:05 am »
God dammit guys, I go to bed and you no lynch like noobs. I should have left a note saying my vote would always move to avoid no lynch. (Yes i know that wouldn't work)
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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258950#msg1258950
« Reply #356 on: March 08, 2017, 01:12:38 pm »
The problem with you guys is that you would rather lynch a town, than having a no lynch. :P

Let's use abilities to get actual leads. Based on some roles, I'd put some things out there though:

- Healers: Is it worth for them to keep targeting the same person consistently to eventually deter A nightkill or is it more worth to adapt to the previous day's towntells and thus switch it up every night?
- Investigators: Should they investigate someone loud or someone quiet?
- Town-aligned killers (vigilantes): Should they kill as often as possible or should they abstain from random shots?

If vigilantes decide to kill frequently, it might save time if they decided to shoot a person, who other people would be too distracted with if said person would stay alive. Reasoning is that while the majority focuses on ONE person, everyone else slips under the radar and the attention of the players is not spreaded. (but that doesn't mean you should shoot me >_< I'm just sharing ideas)

Keep in mind, if anyone is notified of anything, share it with the public. For example, if you are roleblocked.
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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258951#msg1258951
« Reply #357 on: March 08, 2017, 01:22:28 pm »
I don't see that as a problem. You have to lynch if you want to win. Town is more and more at a disadvantage with every missed lynch.

- Healers: Targeting the same person over and over is usually a bad idea. Sure, you might eventually get it right, but there's also the possibility you're protecting someone useless (or a person with a useless role). I believe targeting different people is more likely to be successful.
- Investigators: Loud people. Quiet people will (or should be...) be lynched anyway.
- Vigilantes: Not sure.


Though I do find it interesting that you think it's okay to shoot random people with that ability, but "random" lynching is not okay. I see more and more signs that you're actually scum, Sub.

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258953#msg1258953
« Reply #358 on: March 08, 2017, 01:45:46 pm »
Help, Kuro is editing his posts. Somebody stop this maniac.

« Last Edit: Today at 06:22:44 AM by Kuroaitou »

Offline worldwideweb3

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1258954#msg1258954
« Reply #359 on: March 08, 2017, 01:46:56 pm »
Day 0 no lynching is ok, as we will most likely be lynching a town.
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