Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou

[JonathanCrazyJ]

wasn't expecting it to be a 'thing'

found it annoying and wanted to force sol to change his vote to an actual vote

[rob77dp]

EBWOP: If you want to explain it, or go next level and explain why X people think that self-voting is bad, feel free to.

A History of rob's Opinion on Reading Self-Voting, Part I
by rob77dp

A long time ago, in a place not so far away, I first recall observing a self-vote that I wanted to discern for sake of guessing/reading the voter's alignment. I thought it was scummy. Why on EARTH would a player, if they are town, ever think they are the best option for lynch (in 99% of cases)? From their POV, if they area town then it is 100% a _WRONG_ lynch. I figured it most likely a scum tactic to Appeal To Emotion for getting themselves out of hot water.

Sometime later, I played in a game on a site not too far away from here with some self-voting. Repeat self-voting even. So far it is 3/3 (4/4 if you count the separate instances from the same player) being a town player doing the self-voting.

The empirical evidence from my observations is that self-voting is a town-tell (this excludes going back to previous EtG mafia game where I think it happened several times -- Sol? kdz? maybe - if so both were scum; gino too? if so, he was town). Logically and intellectually I still struggle to see why a player who is town would think self-voting is the right move -- if you're town YOU 100% KNOW YOU ARE VOTING AGAINST YOUR WIN-CON (this excludes special case abilities and some other very specific scenarios that I will not bore us all with anymore than I am already).

TL;DR - Self-voting makes no sense from town perspective because if the player is town then self-voting is not in alignment with their alignment. Town should try to vote scum and lynch the enemies -- who are scum (used loosely here to mean NOT-town).

[rob77dp]

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, JonathanCrazyJ, UTAlan
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3
Submachine (1) - DoubleCapitals
UTAlan (1) - rob77dp
Linkcat (2) - Linkcat, Espithel
DoubleCapitals (1) - Submachine

DC only gets annoyed by metagaming and such when it directly hurts his goals.

Submachine (1) - DoubleCapitals


erm, yeah, no, hiding your stupid text like that is just a dick move whether town or scum and I'd have none of that.

He found invisible text, then he got annoyed at nothing. Scum confirmed.

This does not substantiate your read that it is indicative of scum!DC though. You mention it in a way that you see it as a DC-tell... can you dig up something to substantiate that? Otherwise, it looks like a ghost-reason to scum-read and vote on a player.

[worldwideweb3]

How much time left?

[rob77dp]

How much time left?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-68-by-kuroaitou/msg1258564/#msg1258564

Day 0
IS NOW OVER. STOP VOTING.

[Submachine]

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (4) - Solaris, JonathanCrazyJ, UTAlan, Submachine
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3
Submachine (3) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto
UTAlan (1) - rob77dp
Linkcat (1) - Linkcat
mathman101 (1) - ddevans96

Saving what can be saved. >_>

He was my favorite though. ;-;

[mathman101]

Day 0
IS NOW OVER. STOP VOTING.

I totally thought I had another 24 hrs. Gonna add a throwaway vote for now since I will be afk at deadline, and currently have no reads on anybody.

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (4) - Solaris, JonathanCrazyJ, UTAlan, Submachine
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3
Submachine (3) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto
UTAlan (1) - rob77dp
Linkcat (1) - Linkcat
mathman101 (1) - ddevans96
iancudorinmarian (1) - mathman101

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Sub, what do you find scummy about me randomly voting you?

I had my reason to vote on you, but it wasn't because I found you scummy. Are you suggesting that you are scummy?


> thinks about times when rob was scummy and voted me out on Day 1
> having flashbacks of closed mafia

Rust levels: 91% No, really don't bother asking me why I voted on you. It was solely based on odds and math, and not because I would have any clue this early in the game. Asking me about it would not result in anything valuable. It would just pull us deeper into a conversation that leads nowhere

for those who don't want to trawl, this is sub's invis text, uninvisd.

Yeah. OK it doesn't say anything of note, but it is IRRITATING AS HELL. AND you got banned for invis texting something against the rules before. if only as a way of discouraging you for EVER using invis text again, because it's not something I would ever look for, and is just a dick move using forum code to your advantage, my vote is changing.

Srsly, stop using invis text, nobody has ever enjoyed it.

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, UTAlan, Submachine
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3
Submachine (4) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto, JonathanCrazyJ
UTAlan (1) - rob77dp
Linkcat (1) - Linkcat
mathman101 (1) - ddevans96
iancudorinmarian (1) - mathman101

[UTAlan]

Removing my semi-placeholder vote. Considering who is scummiest so far. Will report back with my conclusion.

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, JonathanCrazyJ, Submachine
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3
Submachine (3) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto
UTAlan (1) - rob77dp
Linkcat (1) - Linkcat
mathman101 (1) - ddevans96

[rob77dp]

Hmmm, it feels strange... (not sure if strangely right or strangely strange) but I find myself leaning scummy for dawn given his typical M.O. is to slank the hee-haw out of the game, if not totally 0-post the whole thing, and show up late to try hard. I remember a while back, forget who with though, thinking that usually scum!dawn is more easily engaged in the game.

Bringing that meandering to point here: I am leaning scum on dawn right now given his involvement already with more than a one-line post and more than 0 posts. I hesitate to go much with it today because it feels like punishing activity -- the LAST thing I want to do.

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (3) - Solaris, Submachine, rob77dp
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3
Submachine (4) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto, JonathanCrazyJ
Linkcat (1) - Linkcat
mathman101 (1) - ddevans96

[rob77dp]

Also, I think I got the mini-flurry of votes straight in my count...

[Submachine]

Sure guys. Kill me for... what exactly?

You are killing off a valuable role.