Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou

[worldwideweb3]

7/18=38.88%

You wanted at least 30%. Here's even more than that.

Where did 7/18 come from?

[iancudorinmarian]

7/18=38.88%

You wanted at least 30%. Here's even more than that.

Where did 7/18 come from?

4 criminals and 3 intelligence out of 18 players

[worldwideweb3]

7/18=38.88%

You wanted at least 30%. Here's even more than that.

Where did 7/18 come from?

4 criminals and 3 intelligence out of 18 players

We need to kill criminals though. Intelligence lynches dont help us at all.

[iancudorinmarian]

I don't think town wins if the intelligence wins.

Also, I don't see how they are useful to town.

[worldwideweb3]

I believe intelligence is just alternative wincon thing for them. It's still a regular game of mafia where town and mafia battle out, and if intelligence survive, they win alongside the winning faction in the end

[rob77dp]

I believe intelligence is just alternative wincon thing for them. It's still a regular game of mafia where town and mafia battle out, and if intelligence survive, they win alongside the winning faction in the end

If Intell is unable to get these requirements:

1. At least one Intell player alive
2. Send the host a list of all secondary role names existing

in order to win. It is _NOT_ the same as just "well they win with town".


Also, @ian -- for you if you're town it should be 7/17 non-town, not 7/18 unless you're unsure if you're town??

[iancudorinmarian]

Right. I just looked at how many players there were and and how many of each faction, didn't really take myself into account.

[worldwideweb3]

I believe intelligence is just alternative wincon thing for them. It's still a regular game of mafia where town and mafia battle out, and if intelligence survive, they win alongside the winning faction in the end

If Intell is unable to get these requirements:

1. At least one Intell player alive
2. Send the host a list of all secondary role names existing

in order to win. It is _NOT_ the same as just "well they win with town".


Also, @ian -- for you if you're town it should be 7/17 non-town, not 7/18 unless you're unsure if you're town??

Doesnt change that for us, as town, its 4/17. We are hunting mafia.

[rob77dp]

Addendum to first paragraph of previous post - I agree with this:

Fwiw, it's better for intelligence team to lynch and try kill Mafia ( to prevent Mafia from killing them/end the game quicker)

To clarify, if I were Intelligence, I would be inclined to work with town rather than against them, as support of my point.

I think I see what you're getting at here but I don't fully agree. Intelligence Party simply wants to survive so if the lynch targets are "not Intell" players I see no concrete reason they wouldn't want to lynch that player. Sure they prefer it be a mafioso but if it isn't Intell it is likely just a OK with them. Later on, I can see Intell players wanting to actively avoid lynching their own members AND any players they have determined roles for (they'll want to keep their known-roles-list playres alive).

Basically, it is possible Intell team has reasons to try to help town but I see them as minor reasons and overall they have no surefire tie to wanting town to live more/longer.

[rob77dp]

I believe intelligence is just alternative wincon thing for them. It's still a regular game of mafia where town and mafia battle out, and if intelligence survive, they win alongside the winning faction in the end

If Intell is unable to get these requirements:

1. At least one Intell player alive
2. Send the host a list of all secondary role names existing

in order to win. It is _NOT_ the same as just "well they win with town".


Also, @ian -- for you if you're town it should be 7/17 non-town, not 7/18 unless you're unsure if you're town??

Doesnt change that for us, as town, its 4/17. We are hunting mafia.

This is a very good point, www3. However, do consider that lynching Intell players DOES NOT HARM TOWN. Therefore daytime lynch preference is to nail a 4/17 scum _but_ not at the exclusion of the chances it hits Intell player. 7/17 is still the town chance to not hit town (neutral-or-better result, generally speaking); 4/17 is the chance to hit scum (positive result); 10/17 is the chance to hit town (negative result). Those chances to hit not-a-town improve _only_when_town_odds_of_winning_go_down - that is, if you want to wait to lynch somebody until town has improved odds of hitting a scum then you're advocating to wait until town is in a more dire situation than the situation was when the game started.

[iancudorinmarian]

Pretty sure intelligence can win without town winning. That means if we go on with the "no lynch" nonsense, we are going to lose to intelligence rather than criminals.

Even so, with 4/17, we're at a solid 23%, which is almost 1 in 4. If that's not good enough for you guys, then I don't know. We can't wait until the ratio gets to 1 in 3, it will be too late by then.

My point with the no-lynch being a terrible decision still stands.

[rob77dp]

-rare dd triple post-

And in regards to letting mafia/Intelligence make the first move - sometimes it's better to go second. In the case of mafia, if the lynch happens first mafia can then play off that lynch and use NK to frame/push/mislead, while if the NK happens first, although they can still do this with discussion, it's generally not as powerful as with a lynch, because the lynch is the strongest thing in the game.

In other words, I find there to be plenty of information from both no-lynch and lynch in most day start games, which is why I no longer always have a preference, hence my post earlier.

1. What? I don't follow the logic that led you to the conclusion that mafia can spin mislynches to frame other players for follow-up ML's rather than having to work harder to frame NK's for follow-up ML's. That doesn't make sense to me.

2. OK - so what was gleaned from the No Lynch on Day 0? All I have is the posts in the thread available to me to read. Which I did while I was playing Day 0. There is no more information available now than on Day 0. If we lynched a player that was in some way scummier or read as scummier than others from Day 0 posts and activity then I would be able to analyze the wagon, counter-wagon(s), and how that player had acted/posted during Day 0. Instead, 4 players didn't want to lynch anybody so here we sit just as if it was still Day 0 in so far as town having information while scum are plotting kill on a not-scum player.