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Offline UTAlan

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259840#msg1259840
« Reply #1080 on: March 12, 2017, 06:31:25 pm »
Given what we knew at the time, I don't regret what we did or how we did it. Given what we know now, I still don't really regret it. Int cop is only situational beneficial to town. I'd, ofc, rather lynch mafia, but I'm not heartbroken over this. Doesn't feel like a huge momentum shift or anything.

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259843#msg1259843
« Reply #1081 on: March 12, 2017, 07:22:42 pm »
Night 2
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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259846#msg1259846
« Reply #1082 on: March 12, 2017, 08:06:01 pm »
I'm giving this method the benefit of doubt, but I'd like to see it unfold. So far you outlined how to do it, but I didn't see it being put to the test.

If we didn't learn anything valuable, just sketchy things that can be easily explained, then a repeated No_Lynch would have been the better way to go, which should be considered for future votes.

However, if we DID learn something, we should follow through with the conclusion. If we learn something from it, but ignore or forget about it, then all of it was for nothing.

Given what we knew at the time, I don't regret what we did or how we did it. Given what we know now, I still don't really regret it. Int cop is only situational beneficial to town. I'd, ofc, rather lynch mafia, but I'm not heartbroken over this. Doesn't feel like a huge momentum shift or anything.

UT, do you mind on elaborating on this for Sub? I'm struggling to explain it properly and my attention is elsewhere today.
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Offline UTAlan

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259850#msg1259850
« Reply #1083 on: March 12, 2017, 09:59:35 pm »
I kinda agree with sub on a no lynch, on day 0. We have no info whatsoever, and it's basically guesswork. We have a much greater chance of lynching town today. Tell me, how many times have we acc lynched a mafia on day 0?

So I'm convinced that w3's big push for No Lynch is largely due to him being Intelligence. Of course they want No Lynch because the longer the game goes the more likely they'll meet their win conditions. Definitely worth considering the others who pushed for NL as possible Intel players.

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
rob77dp (1) - Submachine
Solaris (2) - Solaris, JonathanCrazyJ
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Coffeeditto (1) - rob77dp
Espithel (1) - worldwideweb3

D0 random vote that's only worth mentioning because he happened to randomly pick a (now) known mafia member. :silly:

Looking at the rest of D0 (and a sizeable portion of N1), most of his posts are just pushing for / defending the No Lynch.

Fwiw, it's better for intelligence team to lynch and try kill Mafia ( to prevent Mafia from killing them/end the game quicker)

Not sure if this was his strategy or if he just wanted town to think that this is Intel's strategy. Still notable, given that we now know he was Intel.

d2d - posted a bit, but nothing much realting directly to the mafia. Just some waffle/mechanics and other talk.
Link - neutral. Claims that he's struggling to scumread anyone, which is slightly weird too, but nothing too out of place yet.
fab - dropped a random vote on dd day 0 (why dd, fab?). Then removed his vote, then put another vote on solaris (why?) then removed it. That's all the posts he's made really. Will wait for him to respond to his reasonings. Also said "Last time I tried to No Lynch I got lynched, so let's do opposite." when sol had 5 votes, sub had 4 and fab had a grand total of 0. Makes no sense at all.
www3 - honest town. All posts seems impeccable. Carry on.
UT - tells me to put my vote on no lynch (or on someone else) Then voted me by saying im pushing hard for no lynch. WTF UT? Said "nothing of note" when someone asked for tl;dr of N1. But also says that its important to scum read by reading posts and not night actions. How can you say nothing og note and then say that....
kdz - unusually active but i dont want to punish him for that...just something to keep in mind. I like some of his posts, will look out for how he plays the rest of it.
gino - nothing to talk about
sola - hasnt posted much. Dont think he's read all of mafia either.
DC - will give him the town lean for now.
JCJ - Why did you vote sola after removing your vote from sub? I didnt see a reason for it
dd - seems neutral. You missed some people out in your reads list though, might wanna go back and add stuff in there.
ian - bashes about no lynch when he made a total of 4 posts during day 0, none of which were of any substance. Left his joke vote on d2d for no reason at all too.
sub - lot's of waffling, stupid stuff, bad town play, but not scum play.
lunaris - too many posts for her to read. I'll give her time to read up on - be quick please.
Espi - i'm waiting for that list venn thing. Otherwise, seems pretty normal espi play.
coffee- neutral.
math - i've a gut feeling that's positive about him. But his posts show otherwise. He wishes to lynch, but doesn't intend to catch up on mafia :/
rob - active as always. If you disagree with rob, you are a mafia in his opinion. Don't know if he's trying to go overboard with all the posts in order to gain control as a mafia, or acc is town and trying to help town. Will keep an eye on his future posts carefully and see how he goes.


NOTE THAT NIGHTKILL WILL GREATLY AFFECT MY VIEWS.

Not sure how helpful this is since he wasn't on mafia and happened on N1, before he could use his abilities. Also he doesn't actually give any scum-reads, I'm just now noticing. (My interpretation of that is that he's walking the fence, not pushing anyone too hard for town or too hard for scum. Safe Intel play.)

@rob

Espi was rather nice to you. After seeing your and espi's interaction (and seeing how you two voted on diff wagons too), i would funnily enough suspect you as mafia.
Sola is also on my mafia list atm.

On to D1. He probably realizes No Lynch isn't gonna be an option anymore. Puts Sol and rob on his scum list. My gut says he's pushing for those he would otherwise read as town, since town has the advantage at this point in the game and Intel wants things balanced as long as possible. That could also be filtered through the fact that I am town reading both rob and Sol, but I also don't see much incentive for him to actually push lynches for mafia members. Having mafia down 2 after 2 days would make things tough for Intel.

worldwideweb (3) - rob77dp, iancudorinmarian, UTAlan
Solaris (3) - killsdazombies ddevans96, JonathanCrazyJ
rob77dp (2) - Solaris, worldwideweb3

Votes on Rob. Not sure why he didn't add to Sol's train here. Would love anyone's thoughts on that.

worldwideweb (3) - rob77dp, iancudorinmarian, UTAlan
Solaris (5) - killsdazombies, ddevans96, JonathanCrazyJ, Coffeeditto, worldwideweb3
rob77dp (2) - Solaris,  Lunaris
DoubleCapitals (1) - Submachine

Thought about it, and it seems the best option atm, due to so much positive espi/sol interaction.

Err, wait, nevermind. There it is. The more I think about it the more I think w3 was reading Sol and rob as town, but publicly read them as scum so that they might get lynched.


On my to do list: Look at how other people interacted with w3.

Offline UTAlan

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259851#msg1259851
« Reply #1084 on: March 12, 2017, 10:19:40 pm »
This analysis makes me think. Link pushed for NL, then pushed for a Coffee or DC or JCJ lynch. If I recall, the only reasoning he gave was against Coffee. Just worth considering if Link survives N2 and pushes for a lynch target, it might actually be someone he is reading as town (given that he may be Intel).

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259854#msg1259854
« Reply #1085 on: March 12, 2017, 11:58:51 pm »
Fwiw, it's better for intelligence team to lynch and try kill Mafia ( to prevent Mafia from killing them/end the game quicker)

Considering intel start the game not knowing eachother, i'm certain this is genuine, because he would have wanted to make sure his fellow intellers knew what they should be doing. Would make no sense for him to make a false suggestion, and one of the reasons if I had been around last night when this was going down, I would have strongly suggested he was likely to be intel. The inclusion of the sentence in brackets is very 'spell it out in case my team haven't realised'.
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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259860#msg1259860
« Reply #1086 on: March 13, 2017, 01:19:42 am »
If you're reading me Int for pushing No Lynch, then you didn't see my post of past support for No Lynch. Also I would not have voted w3.

My DC scumread wasn't there when I read through the thread and my scumread on JCJ has no reasoning, but that happens every mafia.
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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259861#msg1259861
« Reply #1087 on: March 13, 2017, 01:24:01 am »
Does that justify a scumread, though?
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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259862#msg1259862
« Reply #1088 on: March 13, 2017, 01:33:58 am »
This might be a controversial opinion, but I believe that a scumread does in fact justify a scumread.
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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259863#msg1259863
« Reply #1089 on: March 13, 2017, 01:41:52 am »
If you're reading me Int for pushing No Lynch, then you didn't see my post of past support for No Lynch. Also I would not have voted w3.

My DC scumread wasn't there when I read through the thread and my scumread on JCJ has no reasoning, but that happens every mafia.
Fwiw, I'm not certain that you're int. Just worth keeping an eye on you. And make sure we get reasoning before following you (which should happen anyway).

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259864#msg1259864
« Reply #1090 on: March 13, 2017, 01:50:40 am »
This might be a controversial opinion, but I believe that a scumread does in fact justify a scumread.

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Re: Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64236.msg1259865#msg1259865
« Reply #1091 on: March 13, 2017, 01:52:19 am »
But a scumread without any reason whatsoever is a bad one. I mean, if you were like, 'I get a sketchy vibe from JCJ', that might be cool, but not with no backing whatsoever.
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