Elements Mafia 66 - by killsdazombies

[worldwideweb3]

Looking forward to the huge UT messageboard post.

[Linkcat]

The sad part about this is that I actually had w3 pegged as the last mafia. You might have noticed the following post looked out of place:

Don't worry rob, I'm going to win this game for town.

What I was actually doing was assuring rob that I wasn't going to have this mafia lost by us bickering as v/v again, which I was going to reveal right before the phase switched, although admittedly I only made that post to annoy rob a bit. It was only around the time of the post I made before that one that I switched from rob as 90% mafia to w3 as 90% mafia. It was w3's voting in final 5 that first tipped me off, and most of what I saw looking back at the entire game supported w3 as mafia.

It should also be noted that we would have won if I had remembered to use my protection ability on Night 1, enabling me to use it Night 3.

As predicted, this results in me still missing out on the achievement for winning 3 games in a row, in the most ridiculous way possible.

LLLLLLLWWLWWLWWLWWL

I'd have to say the saddest thing of all is that we missed having a mafia end with an exciting final 5 and final 3. I was really looking forward to lynching w3 tomorrow.

[worldwideweb3]

The sad part about this is that I actually had w3 pegged as the last mafia. You might have noticed the following post looked out of place:

Don't worry rob, I'm going to win this game for town.

What I was actually doing was assuring rob that I wasn't going to have this mafia lost by us bickering as v/v again, which I was going to reveal right before the phase switched, although admittedly I only made that post to annoy rob a bit. It was only around the time of the post I made before that one that I switched from rob as 90% mafia to w3 as 90% mafia. It was w3's voting in final 5 that first tipped me off, and most of what I saw looking back at the entire game supported w3 as mafia.

It should also be noted that we would have won if I had remembered to use my protection ability on Night 1, enabling me to use it Night 3.

As predicted, this results in me still missing out on the achievement for winning 3 games in a row, in the most ridiculous way possible.

LLLLLLLWWLWWLWWLWWL

I'd have to say the saddest thing of all is that we missed having a mafia end with an exciting final 5 and final 3. I was really looking forward to lynching w3 tomorrow.

So Sad. Ofcourse, i knew you had that ability, as i id'ed you. Had to take a chance and lynch you, as i knew UT would support me over rob (i can just claim my officer use on rob and say he's mafia, at that point). Thankfully, none of that was needed.

[killsdazombies]

I really liked uta using the votes to try and communicate, it was pretty well done

[UTAlan]

Below are my reads/my analysis from right before I posted my read-list for w3 at the end of last day phase. In yellow are updates after finding out that anti was mafia. In turquoise are post-game thoughts.

Spoiler for antiaverage:

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255421/#msg1255421

Bandwagoned with rob against fabian > possibly newb mistake if he's teamed up w/ rob

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255548/#msg1255548
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255575/#msg1255575

Asks about # of mafia / says thanks when finds out > Neutral read - could be town asking b/c we didn't know or mafia asking b/c they know it'll come out eventually and might as well get "town" credit for being the one to ask

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255679/#msg1255679

Votes w/ gino vs Kuro > rob hasn't voted yet, doesn't vote with Link. Looks kinda bad since Kuro was NK'd the next night.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255687/#msg1255687

First one to point out my "condition" > Neutral read - I'm not convinced mafia knew why their kill didn't go through until after I "revealed" it via repeated random votes

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255786/#msg1255786

"Anyway, I think Kuro has a reasonable response, although if he is lying about his primary role but telling the truth about his officer role, that role is going to just wipe us out later. So I'm not changing my vote because he's still making me nervous."

> A fair point, but again, Kuro getting NK'd the next night does make this look bad.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255956/#msg1255956

Doesn't know why dawn's primary role isn't revealed - Neutral read (again) b/c he could be scum w/ rob and playing dumb or just be town and not know yet (I didn't either at this point).

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255970/#msg1255970

Most revealing post so far. Puts w3 and Link as his suspected scum. The most likely scenarios are rob/anti and Link/w3 being on the same teams, one way or the other.

Spoiler for Linkcat:

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255473/#msg1255473

First notable post. Votes on rob with no evidence because Linkcat. If scum, he voted away from teammate (or teammate hadn't voted yet).
Voted away from anti

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255531/#msg1255531

Neutral read. Doesn't seem like Link to miss a mafia deadline, but he has seemed busier IRL lately, so hard to say.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255602/#msg1255602

"Anyone townreading rob right now is underestimating him." > This caught my attention at the time and again looking back on it. Combined with his D1 vote, looks more and more like he's not on the same team as rob.

I have this running theory that rob and Link are teamed up and seeing how much they can get away with before anyone suspects their on the same team. Give themselves a challenge, so to speak. Have rob take charge as "town-lead" and Link undermine him every step of the way. It'd be bold, especially since they've voted on each other multiple times (though neither has really been close to getting lynched). The hard part about this theory is that it's hard to get a read either way. They're either not on the same team or doing a good job of playing that role. I'm thinking I'm gonna have to play the odds and let them pull this one on us if it is true just b/c statistically it's more likely that they're not on the same team.
Thankfully this wasn't the case

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255675/#msg1255675
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255695/#msg1255695

Realizes how I've been affected by N1 NK attempt. Same as anti - neutral read.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255752/#msg1255752

So hard to read this guy. Kuro getting killed on N2 and flipping town makes this look bad, but I recall Link doing this kind of thing before as town. Would be a dumb move by Mafia, I think, to "predict" someone flipping town when they know it's true. It all comes back to WIFOM, of course, but I don't think Link would put himself in that position.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255844/#msg1255844

Here we go! Link goes full tilt against rob and never lets up. He draws a clear line in the sand even a bit early that puts rob/anti together and (in Link's mind) clears w3. Here's what throws me - why anti? Why not w3? Even with an investigative role he wouldn't know w3's primary role yet. Definitely shady, imo. Would love to have had him explain why anti over w3 (or even Kuro or dawn at that point).
Strong town lean for this. Would have been dangerous to point out his own teammate in this way. I still want an answer on why anti over w3

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255847/#msg1255847

Explains why he thinks dawn is town, but doesn't really help in reading him.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255973/#msg1255973

Hangs it all on the rob/anti team again. Votes for rob, even though I already voted on anti. Not really sure why, unless he's wanting to get the more experienced mafia player lynched first and assumes I'll follow suit and switch my vote to go with him.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256019/#msg1256019

Wait. Now I'm voting with him on rob and he switches to vote on anti? I'm so confused. Doesn't help me read him b/c town or scum, this is weird.
I mean, at least he's voting on anti who turned out to be scum. Solid town read.

Spoiler for rob77dp:

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255420/#msg1255420

First town-y post. Kind of. Pushes for a lynch over no lynch. The scummy part of this is that he pushes a little too hard. It's one thing to OMGUS fabian for no lynch voting, but to suggest that fabian is scum for suggesting it? These forums have a history of pushing for no lynch on D1 until very recently, so I don't think it's scummy at all and I feel like rob should know that too.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255422/#msg1255422

Asks anti about the no lynch thing. If he's teamed up with him, this is a good way to give the impression they're separate. On its own, no read. But combined with other stuff, it fits the rob/anti narrative.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255466/#msg1255466
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255468/#msg1255468
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255472/#msg1255472
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255474/#msg1255474

Pushing for activity. Town-y, but rob can get away with this kind of playing even as scum. Initially I read him as town for this, though.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255498/#msg1255498

Some yummy reads. anti is slightly Zailor. Link and w3 are null.
Reading anti as more town than Link and w3 doesn't help his case.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255508/#msg1255508

Doesn't like lynching low/no posters. Okay, noted.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255509/#msg1255509

Puts pressure on w3 for not posting enough. Wants me to join him b/c I'm the only other active player. If he's town, that's a weird play b/c I would think he'd be more suspicious of me possibly being mafia. As mafia, how great is it to get a town player to join you on the lynch? In hindsight, this is a scummy post.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255517/#msg1255517

Calls w3 scummy for not responding until he got voted on.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255519/#msg1255519

NOW he's suspicious of me for sheeping him. Why now when he actively called me out to join him in his vote?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255538/#msg1255538

Another read list. w3 has moved to Zailor lean for the very reason he called him scummy a fews posts before (???). anti has moved to null, joining where he'd later put Link at this point (b/c he accidentally left him off at this point).
Why did you move anti from slightly-Zailor to null?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255584/#msg1255584

Calls out anti for asking/thanking about the # of mafia in the game. First post that doesn't fit the rob/anti narrative, but defo could be rob's good mafia playing.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255587/#msg1255587

"Hmm, a lot of reliance on activity / post-count it feels like in your list here UTA." > This fits his post about not wanting to lynch no/low posters.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255597/#msg1255597

Just another town-y post trying to get people to be active and explain their actions. Again, my initial read was that this looked like town, but I don't want to underestimate him.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255599/#msg1255599

First time he calls himself out as NK 1 target. No read, really, except that it gives the subliminal message that he's town b/c he's claiming he'll be NK'd by mafia. Could go either way, but with the filter of him being the most likely mafia member left in the game at this point, it does look sketch.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255603/#msg1255603

Okay, so this is a towny post. But it also just fits in the rob/Link banter.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255685/#msg1255685

Finally realizes why I can't talk. No read, but worth noting that rob and anti were the first to notice it (or call it out).

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255692/#msg1255692

Hmm, kinda scummy. How *would* I know who targeted me unless I targeted myself? And wouldn't that be juicy info to give mafia? Kill the protector if they're still out there. I missed this at the time, but this stands out as super scummy.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255698/#msg1255698

Calls out for Cannoner (himself) to kill dawn. Would love to hear why he thinks that's better than lynching him. Goes against everything he said about not lynching no/low posters, it seems. Except that he says this would be better without explaining why.
To be more clear: rob, why is 1U killing a 0-poster better than lynching one?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255805/#msg1255805

Joins my vote without explanation. This is sketch. Also, side note - he gave me two options and then asked me to answer yes/no >.<

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255840/#msg1255840

Okay, so he missed the deadline, that's fine. But why did he switch to gino in the first place? And he wanted Kuro lynched, then Kuro gets NK'd. Obviously this argument doesn't hold up too long since multiple people voted on him at some point (everyone alive except w3), but still worth noting.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255845/#msg1255845

He could have misinterpreted Link here, but this was the first time I started seriously considering rob as scum. I clearly understood what Link meant and rob jumped on him and held on tight like this was some huge and obvious mistake. Strangely, he never pushed very hard for Link to get lynched even with this.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255886/#msg1255886

Starts harassing w3. One of the (many) posts that makes me think they're not on a mafia-team together.
Heh, turns out this was right. Go figure.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255891/#msg1255891

Link and anti are neutral. Throws shade on w3. I find it really interesting (and hard to decipher) that he never pushes Link more despite some posts about Link looking scummy.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255951/#msg1255951
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255952/#msg1255952

Innocent mistake or is he scum and knows that dawn is town and slipped up? *insert ascii shrug guy here*

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255960/#msg1255960

Finally votes on Link. Though his reasoning is like before - not based on anything nearly as solid as he makes it out to be.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255963/#msg1255963

Again, assumes dawn is town, while we really don't know either way.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256001/#msg1256001

Wait. Now he wonders why we didn't push for a lynch against dawn? After he specifically said we *shouldn't* lynch anyone for that reason? Flip flopping looks bad. On the other hand, I'm not sure what he gained as mafia by claiming to have killed dawn when he could have kept silent and left dawn's killer unknown. That part definitely doesn't fit the rob-as-mafia narrative.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256003/#msg1256003

He actually makes a great point here. If w3 is on mafia with anyone-but-rob, waiting to put his vote with me is a safe bet b/c then he's siding with the only confirmed townie.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256006/#msg1256006

Wait, what? Why? rob should know better than to throw shade on someone (anti) and not give any reasons. And now he's doing what he criticized w3 for.
rob: Why did you suspect anti? And why didn't you vote on him?
This is what had me convinced he was mafia. If he had voted on anti and/or given reasons for suspecting him, this would have been a pretty big town-post once anti flipped mafia.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256043/#msg1256043

I don't get why he thought I was nearly-convinced he was town. 75-80%? Because he posts a lot? Eh.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256049/#msg1256049

Makes the argument that I have the most trouble reconciling with him being mafia. I don't understand why he'd announce that he killed dawn as mafia. :/

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256070/#msg1256070

Starts leaning aa toward town again. The only time he seems suspicious of him, he doesn't actually vote on him and doesn't give reasoning.
Ha. This now makes him look SUPER scummy.
*facepalm*

Spoiler for worldwideweb3:

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255448/#msg1255448

Warns he's gonna be gone for the phase. No read.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255513/#msg1255513

Votes to save himself. Works for town/mafia. No read.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255525/#msg1255525

First time he butts heads with rob. 99.9% sure he's on not on mafia-team with rob. His vote on fabian doesn't really help his case either way b/c it would be a tie vote no matter where he put it, so he wasn't deciding who would die but that he would live. If I do take that into account, though, I'm still kinda stuck. He doesn't want to vote with Link if they're scum together, so anyone else is a safe bet.
Make that 100% (b/c anti).

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255665/#msg1255665

Ooh, a reads list. No read on anti. Linkcat: "He's a good player, so probably wanna keep him for now." Fasho shady. And ofc he's suscpicious of rob.
No read on anti doesn't help or hurt him at this point.

"However, my general rule of thumb is one of the mafia is atleast quite active." - Kinda town-y, I think. If he's teamed up with Link or anti, then he's the "active" one of the team, making this a damning statement. WIFOM, ofc, but would be bold to say this about himself.
*facepalm*

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255759/#msg1255759

"Any reasons there link? Also, Kuro, Dawn, anti, just tell us what you think so far, what your reads are and all. It will be a massive help."

No read, but noteworthy that he asked Link for his reasons. Good mafia play or sincere town play.
This becomes a "no-read" post now that Link & w3 can't both be mafia.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255787/#msg1255787

Same as above - if he's teamed up with anti as scum, this is good mafia play. Otherwise they're sincerely not on scum team together.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255811/#msg1255811

More suspicion of rob. Still hasn't voted on him yet.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255816/#msg1255816

Votes on dawn. No read here, except that he specifically didn't vote on rob (???).

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255888/#msg1255888

Town-y post. "Gut feeling" seems dangerous to use as your reasoning if you're scum. If he looked shady overall, this would feel scummy.
...

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255890/#msg1255890

Suspicion on rob, thinks Link is neutral. Fits the rob/anti and Link/w3 narrative.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255953/#msg1255953
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255957/#msg1255957
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1255997/#msg1255997
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256004/#msg1256004
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256010/#msg1256010

A bunch of posts going after rob.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256029/#msg1256029

Says he will vote on rob or anti, waits to see where I'm gonna go with my vote. Not sure about that, except that he seems town-y otherwise. Would have liked him to have put his vote down and been willing to change where he put it if I didn't go along.
Still helps his case that he suspected anti.
I still don't get why he didn't vote on Link at the end of this Day phase. Too committed to follow my lead to risk exposing himself? But killing Link there wins the game, right?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256037/#msg1256037

Votes on rob after I do.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256046/#msg1256046

Makes a good point about me not being convinced there's no solid case against rob. Overall a pretty town-y post, I think. No single post makes me think he's town, but a lot of little things make me lean that way.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-66-by-killsdazombies/msg1256074/#msg1256074

Asks for my reads. He seems to be going along with whoever I vote on. In hindsight I wish I had put Link on top and seen if he'd go along. But at this point I think he's town and that makes rob/anti seem likely the mafia team.

Ultimately, he voted for anti, being the swing vote that got him killed. Strong town lean for this.
See above. I know it ended up working out, but only b/c of the poison that he didn't know was used. Without that, the game comes down to whether Link could convince me to vote on w3 during the next day phase.

[worldwideweb3]

Also, i should say, taht mafia werent allowed to talk to themselves outside of this thread. So me and anti didnt communicate at all.

[worldwideweb3]

Also, UT, it would be me rob and you left. I nk'ed link, not rob. Rob died due to poison.

[UTAlan]

Also, UT, it would be me rob and you left. I nk'ed link, not rob. Rob died due to poison.

Ah, good point. Then yeah, we were probably screwed. But still curious as to why you didn't just vote for Link at the end there.

[worldwideweb3]

Also, UT, it would be me rob and you left. I nk'ed link, not rob. Rob died due to poison.

Ah, good point. Then yeah, we were probably screwed. But still curious as to why you didn't just vote for Link at the end there.

Too afraid that rob might move his vote. And then, me and anti being on same pile is gg

[rob77dp]

Also, UT, it would be me rob and you left. I nk'ed link, not rob. Rob died due to poison.

Ah, good point. Then yeah, we were probably screwed. But still curious as to why you didn't just vote for Link at the end there.

why screwed? I would have come out voting www3 to eternity forever and ever.

You would have voted me over www3?!!?

[rob77dp]

Also, there is no way winning as far ahead as mutineers were this whole game that I would outpost any other two players combined. No.way. Any tinfoil on me at that point was silly. Shame on me for not realizing www3 was just lazy slacking it as scum. His play this game is exactly why I push so hard for town activity.

Also, shame on any Zailor who thought my blasting dawn was ever in any way a scum move to soft it, do it, and then claim it.

[UTAlan]

That was your biggest town credit. I can't say how I would have voted because it would have depended on what Link was planning on saying and what you (rob) would have said in response to my bulletin board questions.

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