Elements Mafia 63 - by skyironsword

[Solaris]

no

[worldwideweb3]

no

See, who's being rude now.

[iancudorinmarian]

Ryli, what do you make of all this mess?

I will not be making any input on this til we have a Nightkill victim.

I think www3 has good reason to question you here - what can you offer as your thought process and reason for choosing to state your planned lack-of-input as implied by your statement here?

I'm still optimistic there will be NO NK victim. I'm optimistic mafia will forget or otherwise blunder the choice or that a protective role will succeed or something. Now, surely I do not expect everybody to be so optimistic but I would and am questioning what kind of motive would be behind publicly proclaiming you will not be interactive (a  very good town trait, usually) during a game phase.

W3 being painted scum early -> asks Ryli what she'd do for a NK -> in a ww3!scum world, might try and paint Ryli in a bad light by NKing the target she stated (which is a stupidly transparent plan so)

You are stupid. I didnt ask what her nk was, just asked her what she made of discussion of dd/rob/dema/me. ugh

Please be polite in exchanges with me. This is the 3rd bloody time you've called me stupid in exchanges in the past 3 days.

Fine. *googles synonym for stupid* But yh, dont take what i say in thread outside of this thread ^^

You've done it outside of thread too.

I like how big this quote is. Lets keep going.

This is stupid.

whoops

[worldwideweb3]

Ryli, what do you make of all this mess?

I will not be making any input on this til we have a Nightkill victim.

I think www3 has good reason to question you here - what can you offer as your thought process and reason for choosing to state your planned lack-of-input as implied by your statement here?

I'm still optimistic there will be NO NK victim. I'm optimistic mafia will forget or otherwise blunder the choice or that a protective role will succeed or something. Now, surely I do not expect everybody to be so optimistic but I would and am questioning what kind of motive would be behind publicly proclaiming you will not be interactive (a  very good town trait, usually) during a game phase.

W3 being painted scum early -> asks Ryli what she'd do for a NK -> in a ww3!scum world, might try and paint Ryli in a bad light by NKing the target she stated (which is a stupidly transparent plan so)

You are stupid. I didnt ask what her nk was, just asked her what she made of discussion of dd/rob/dema/me. ugh

Please be polite in exchanges with me. This is the 3rd bloody time you've called me stupid in exchanges in the past 3 days.

Fine. *googles synonym for stupid* But yh, dont take what i say in thread outside of this thread ^^

You've done it outside of thread too.

I like how big this quote is. Lets keep going.

This is stupid.

whoops

Ian knows. Wheres the thread where people kept on quoting stuff, to make it really small?

[rob77dp]

Dd to answer your question on my opinion of rob dema and kuro

Dema: is acting like an asshole. I usually try to link myself with dema, since it makes me look town when he gets nk or we mislynch him, but I don't want to be associated with that list at all. It's bad karma rn. I think he's town though tbh.

Kuro. Was unsure on his town or mafia, but he threatened me so regardless I didn't really have another play that made sense. It was either vote on the guy I thought was town or vote on kuro who I thought might be town and also threatened me. I asked him why in chat and if we was serious but he never responded. Oh well.

Rob: robs doing his read's and yadda yadda. Typical rob stuff saying a lot of words without a whole lot of meaning, but that's what he and everyone else who tries to do reads day one does. It's all baloney until some gets got. Thus he's at no opinion for me

Anyone else dd?

BEIGE:
Can you clarify what you mean here? I am taking it a certain way but surely you are not being _that_ obtuse... ...?

TEAL:
This may come across as "taking it personally and responding" but really it is (you address to me) HOWEVER I would respond this way even if it was addressed to 'not me'. Your statement here does not hold water for me in being accurate about how mafia games work. EVERY post, even the $h1ttiest and bread-iest of posts, -can- have some sort of input into how players read other players. It seems lazy for you to claim that you cannot find any substance within my 15 posts (a small ratio for me I guess given 410 posts so far on the thread?) on which to have some sort of lean _or_ to consider them +/- as net neutral result.
??

[iancudorinmarian]

Ryli, what do you make of all this mess?

I will not be making any input on this til we have a Nightkill victim.

I think www3 has good reason to question you here - what can you offer as your thought process and reason for choosing to state your planned lack-of-input as implied by your statement here?

I'm still optimistic there will be NO NK victim. I'm optimistic mafia will forget or otherwise blunder the choice or that a protective role will succeed or something. Now, surely I do not expect everybody to be so optimistic but I would and am questioning what kind of motive would be behind publicly proclaiming you will not be interactive (a  very good town trait, usually) during a game phase.

W3 being painted scum early -> asks Ryli what she'd do for a NK -> in a ww3!scum world, might try and paint Ryli in a bad light by NKing the target she stated (which is a stupidly transparent plan so)

You are stupid. I didnt ask what her nk was, just asked her what she made of discussion of dd/rob/dema/me. ugh

Please be polite in exchanges with me. This is the 3rd bloody time you've called me stupid in exchanges in the past 3 days.

Fine. *googles synonym for stupid* But yh, dont take what i say in thread outside of this thread ^^

You've done it outside of thread too.

I like how big this quote is. Lets keep going.

This is stupid.

whoops

Ian knows. Wheres the thread where people kept on quoting stuff, to make it really small?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/humor/gtgtgtdo-not-read-this-threadltltlt/msg1015936/#msg1015936

[skyironsword]

I think I'm supposed to complain about the quote pyramids to give the impression that I try to maintain my mafia.

I think they're kind of funny though.

Carry on.

[Ryli]

Sky approves, that's like Mum and Dad approving, time to stop and find a next fad.

[rob77dp]

My next fad idea:

Scumhunting and other super cutting-edge mafia game type interactions!

Spoiler for There is not enough diverse banter or response related to some of what I've been posting (for my taste at least):

Spoiler for About www3...:

Hey! You made a certain read according to you, this early! I thought that wasn't allowed...double standards. Also, had I moved my vote, you would have been even more certain to lynch me this round....And if I suspect ryli to be Mafia, why would I vote dema.

ORANGE:
Suspect Ryli to be mafia = vote... but 'know' Kuro to be town != vote-somewhere-that-saves-Kuro <-- this is what I think dd (and somewhat kirby just now) are getting at. I have to agree in the sentiment of it givin me a scum-vibe on you www3. Could it simply be that you used words that now in hindsight when scrutinized give an effect you either had no idea would come from them (town-y) or did not intend (scum-y)? Sure could. But town has to grasp at a few things this early and see how the reaction goes and what others chime in with related to the shared thoughts...

PINK:
Um, how does you moving your vote (presumably meaning from Ryli onto Dema to save your town!Kuro) make you more likely to get lynched on Day 2? Is it because you know Dema would flip town too - I could see THAT bringing scrutiny onto a vote switch, but only mafia at this current Night 1 stage of the game would KNOW that such a theoretical vote switch would garner heat (i.e. - you know it would get you lynch-heat because Dema would flip town after your late vote change; I see no way you could know that Dema would _also flip town_ at this point unless you are mafia who know all players' alighments)?

Two scummy strikes on you for my reads, www3. Two strikes do not an out make, but certainly a hole do dig.

&

But I didn't suspect dema to be maf at the time. Had I switched, and dema flipped town, it would be RiP www3, don't deny

But you had publicly stated a STRONG lean of Kuro as town... why not vote that strong town!Kuro lean by casting a vote to save him? I think given you had previously gone out on a limb as suspecting Kuro as town that the next-day-heat for having hopped trains to Dema would have been minimal (were Dema to even flip town - I still get an edge/vibe from you that would seem odd from a town player not knowing for sure what other player alignments are). I have been scum a couple times and definitely consider that aspect the most difficult about being scum -- not slipping in un-town-ways about your requisite unique knowledge of player alignments. Hence, I like having my eye tuned to look for it as scumtell/reads especially early-game (prior to any chance of investigative roles being used or returning information to other players).

&

Oh stop using this logic. You full well now I would have been an easy lynch for maf had that happened, smh. If I stated a STRONG lean of town, then other towns should have jumped with me on ryli, including you. Also, there are like 20 other voters you need to question. Most of the votes were pathetic that round, just following a wagon.

Had _what_ happened??

Can you please clarify for me what the red-colored statement is trying to say?

I cannot simultaneously question 20 other voters - I am but one person. Why don't you do some town work and question the ones you think most suspect? 0.o
(I do have one person in mind that I plan to interact with some regarding a post-or-two of their's from Day 1... It may happen tonight before I pass out or it might have to wait until tomorrow sometime...  )

+

Spoiler for related to dd...:

Double-post because mafia rules:

Note: This exchange has me leaning a little town!dd but with my view also seeing him currently tip-toe-ing that line of tunneling vs. chasing down a hint-of-wolf-odor/leads/reads.

+

Spoiler for discussing RR and dawn...:

Spoiler for d2d removing vote from Dema (putting Kuro into lynch-vote-total lead Day 1:

Going to briefly assess my interpretation of the current and prior situations before this post.

Everyone voting on Dema
I saw this at the time but hesitated to post anything, mainly since there was nothing I had to contribute to the conversation, and I knew that I had at least another day to decide on what to do

- Watermelon Plan
More civ than scum, as it encourages people who haven't read the opening post to do so, checking that ability, and seeing if there are any others that may be able to assist.
Whether these were the original intentions of his post or not is irrelevant to an extent.

- Dema's Defense
Very minor note, but I believe his defense is more comparable to that of a civ than a scum, mainly due to how aggressive it was. Do I like how he defended himself? No. Not in the slightest. But it is more comparable to a civilian gameplay than mafia's.

Counterlynch on Lunaris
I mostly agree with everything said here. Vote someone who will be inactive, because mafia sure as hell won't kill them, and I also agree that if Lunaris is going to be active, then laying off on this counterlynch is also warranted.

Counter-counterlynch on Kuro
First of all, the note that not all cop claims should be 100% trusted is completely warranted. Mainly because I nearly got lynched due to a claim like that.

Other than that, the statement that Kuro isn't beneficial as civ and dangerous as mafia is probably warranted. And at this stage, we are just trying to get to the lesser of two evils. I don't disagree with the vote on him, but I don't agree with it enough to put my own vote on him.

Vote Tally

fabian771 (1) - mathman101
Kuroaitou (6) - RavingRabbid, Linkcat, Ryli, Demagog, killsdazombies, andretimpa
Demagog (5) - JonathanCrazyJ, ddevans96, Lunaris, Solaris, rob77dp
Lunaris (2) - iancudorinmarian, Submachine
dawn to dusk (1) - fabian771
kirbylover314 (2) - danil, Kuroaitou
Ryli (2) - worldwideweb3, Espithel

Nobody that I can particularly think of voting on for now, and Voting Powers will apply quite a bit to whoever gets lynched anyway.

Spoiler for RR removing vote from Kuro to re-tie Kuro/Dema which was final vote tally Day:

fabian771 (1) - mathman101
Kuroaitou (5) - Linkcat, Ryli, Demagog, killsdazombies, andretimpa
Demagog (5) - JonathanCrazyJ, ddevans96, Lunaris, Solaris, rob77dp
Lunaris (2) - iancudorinmarian, Submachine
dawn to dusk (2) - fabian771, RavingRabbid
kirbylover314 (2) - danil, Kuroaitou
Ryli (2) - worldwideweb3, Espithel

This makes perfect sense from my side of things

I think it VERY unlikely that this is scum/scum on d2d/RR given the nature of Kuro flipping town and these being the last two vote-actions on Day 1 prior to Kuro dying. That is my way of summarizing this train of thought:
* d2d-vote-removal just might be what dawn portrays it to be... an unsure townie not voting at all Day 1 (while strange and I think un-helpful to town in the long run, but I don't know for sure...)
* then I suspect RR's vote-removal might have been the same thing.

However, in a world where d2d is mafia (possibly?) his vote removal would be that of putting Kuro into the vote-lead to ML town!Kuro COMBINED with a defense of what might be scum!Dema given that would be the player d2d "saves" by his vote switch (mafia VERY VERY rarely swap votes/trains if both trains are civvy). I think it HIGHLY HIGHLY unlikely that if this was a mafia!dawn move that RR would follow-up with a similar last minute train de-boarding if he is scum!RR.

In a world where RR is mafia (possibly?) his vote would not hop as it did because Kuro was at-the-time already the likely lynched-party (of course some of this has vote-changing roles/effects caveats) and moving off to create another tie simply draws attention a scum should not draw when they don't "have to move to get a ML".

TL;DR- Hmmm, having dragged myself through the above thought process (as flawed as it seems re-reading it now) I feel a little confident (but not certain obviously) in stating my opinion is that Dema and Kuro are probably both town and d2d/RR are probably not scum/scum teammates. Of course Kuro is town (flip!) but if Dema was mafia the mafia-team would have been VERY unlikely to let it sit like that and risk vote-mod-effects nabbing one of their players on Day 1.

+

Spoiler for Ryli's interesting statements about intending interaction abstention...:

Ryli, what do you make of all this mess?

I will not be making any input on this til we have a Nightkill victim.

I think www3 has good reason to question you here - what can you offer as your thought process and reason for choosing to state your planned lack-of-input as implied by your statement here?

I'm still optimistic there will be NO NK victim. I'm optimistic mafia will forget or otherwise blunder the choice or that a protective role will succeed or something. Now, surely I do not expect everybody to be so optimistic but I would and am questioning what kind of motive would be behind publicly proclaiming you will not be interactive (a  very good town trait, usually) during a game phase.

+

Spoiler for kdz in here...:

Dd to answer your question on my opinion of rob dema and kuro

Dema: is acting like an asshole. I usually try to link myself with dema, since it makes me look town when he gets nk or we mislynch him, but I don't want to be associated with that list at all. It's bad karma rn. I think he's town though tbh.

Kuro. Was unsure on his town or mafia, but he threatened me so regardless I didn't really have another play that made sense. It was either vote on the guy I thought was town or vote on kuro who I thought might be town and also threatened me. I asked him why in chat and if we was serious but he never responded. Oh well.

Rob: robs doing his read's and yadda yadda. Typical rob stuff saying a lot of words without a whole lot of meaning, but that's what he and everyone else who tries to do reads day one does. It's all baloney until some gets got. Thus he's at no opinion for me

Anyone else dd?

BEIGE:
Can you clarify what you mean here? I am taking it a certain way but surely you are not being _that_ obtuse... ...?

TEAL:
This may come across as "taking it personally and responding" but really it is (you address to me) HOWEVER I would respond this way even if it was addressed to 'not me'. Your statement here does not hold water for me in being accurate about how mafia games work. EVERY post, even the $h1ttiest and bread-iest of posts, -can- have some sort of input into how players read other players. It seems lazy for you to claim that you cannot find any substance within my 15 posts (a small ratio for me I guess given 410 posts so far on the thread?) on which to have some sort of lean _or_ to consider them +/- as net neutral result.
??

[worldwideweb3]

Also, why isnt sub talking? doesnt he usually talk a lot?

[Ryli]

My next fad idea:

Scumhunting and other super cutting-edge mafia game type interactions!

Spoiler for There is not enough diverse banter or response related to some of what I've been posting (for my taste at least):

Spoiler for About www3...:

Hey! You made a certain read according to you, this early! I thought that wasn't allowed...double standards. Also, had I moved my vote, you would have been even more certain to lynch me this round....And if I suspect ryli to be Mafia, why would I vote dema.

ORANGE:
Suspect Ryli to be mafia = vote... but 'know' Kuro to be town != vote-somewhere-that-saves-Kuro <-- this is what I think dd (and somewhat kirby just now) are getting at. I have to agree in the sentiment of it givin me a scum-vibe on you www3. Could it simply be that you used words that now in hindsight when scrutinized give an effect you either had no idea would come from them (town-y) or did not intend (scum-y)? Sure could. But town has to grasp at a few things this early and see how the reaction goes and what others chime in with related to the shared thoughts...

PINK:
Um, how does you moving your vote (presumably meaning from Ryli onto Dema to save your town!Kuro) make you more likely to get lynched on Day 2? Is it because you know Dema would flip town too - I could see THAT bringing scrutiny onto a vote switch, but only mafia at this current Night 1 stage of the game would KNOW that such a theoretical vote switch would garner heat (i.e. - you know it would get you lynch-heat because Dema would flip town after your late vote change; I see no way you could know that Dema would _also flip town_ at this point unless you are mafia who know all players' alighments)?

Two scummy strikes on you for my reads, www3. Two strikes do not an out make, but certainly a hole do dig.

&

But I didn't suspect dema to be maf at the time. Had I switched, and dema flipped town, it would be RiP www3, don't deny

But you had publicly stated a STRONG lean of Kuro as town... why not vote that strong town!Kuro lean by casting a vote to save him? I think given you had previously gone out on a limb as suspecting Kuro as town that the next-day-heat for having hopped trains to Dema would have been minimal (were Dema to even flip town - I still get an edge/vibe from you that would seem odd from a town player not knowing for sure what other player alignments are). I have been scum a couple times and definitely consider that aspect the most difficult about being scum -- not slipping in un-town-ways about your requisite unique knowledge of player alignments. Hence, I like having my eye tuned to look for it as scumtell/reads especially early-game (prior to any chance of investigative roles being used or returning information to other players).

&

Oh stop using this logic. You full well now I would have been an easy lynch for maf had that happened, smh. If I stated a STRONG lean of town, then other towns should have jumped with me on ryli, including you. Also, there are like 20 other voters you need to question. Most of the votes were pathetic that round, just following a wagon.

Had _what_ happened??

Can you please clarify for me what the red-colored statement is trying to say?

I cannot simultaneously question 20 other voters - I am but one person. Why don't you do some town work and question the ones you think most suspect? 0.o
(I do have one person in mind that I plan to interact with some regarding a post-or-two of their's from Day 1... It may happen tonight before I pass out or it might have to wait until tomorrow sometime...  )

+

Spoiler for related to dd...:

Double-post because mafia rules:

Note: This exchange has me leaning a little town!dd but with my view also seeing him currently tip-toe-ing that line of tunneling vs. chasing down a hint-of-wolf-odor/leads/reads.

+

Spoiler for discussing RR and dawn...:

Spoiler for d2d removing vote from Dema (putting Kuro into lynch-vote-total lead Day 1:

Going to briefly assess my interpretation of the current and prior situations before this post.

Everyone voting on Dema
I saw this at the time but hesitated to post anything, mainly since there was nothing I had to contribute to the conversation, and I knew that I had at least another day to decide on what to do

- Watermelon Plan
More civ than scum, as it encourages people who haven't read the opening post to do so, checking that ability, and seeing if there are any others that may be able to assist.
Whether these were the original intentions of his post or not is irrelevant to an extent.

- Dema's Defense
Very minor note, but I believe his defense is more comparable to that of a civ than a scum, mainly due to how aggressive it was. Do I like how he defended himself? No. Not in the slightest. But it is more comparable to a civilian gameplay than mafia's.

Counterlynch on Lunaris
I mostly agree with everything said here. Vote someone who will be inactive, because mafia sure as hell won't kill them, and I also agree that if Lunaris is going to be active, then laying off on this counterlynch is also warranted.

Counter-counterlynch on Kuro
First of all, the note that not all cop claims should be 100% trusted is completely warranted. Mainly because I nearly got lynched due to a claim like that.

Other than that, the statement that Kuro isn't beneficial as civ and dangerous as mafia is probably warranted. And at this stage, we are just trying to get to the lesser of two evils. I don't disagree with the vote on him, but I don't agree with it enough to put my own vote on him.

Vote Tally

fabian771 (1) - mathman101
Kuroaitou (6) - RavingRabbid, Linkcat, Ryli, Demagog, killsdazombies, andretimpa
Demagog (5) - JonathanCrazyJ, ddevans96, Lunaris, Solaris, rob77dp
Lunaris (2) - iancudorinmarian, Submachine
dawn to dusk (1) - fabian771
kirbylover314 (2) - danil, Kuroaitou
Ryli (2) - worldwideweb3, Espithel

Nobody that I can particularly think of voting on for now, and Voting Powers will apply quite a bit to whoever gets lynched anyway.

Spoiler for RR removing vote from Kuro to re-tie Kuro/Dema which was final vote tally Day:

fabian771 (1) - mathman101
Kuroaitou (5) - Linkcat, Ryli, Demagog, killsdazombies, andretimpa
Demagog (5) - JonathanCrazyJ, ddevans96, Lunaris, Solaris, rob77dp
Lunaris (2) - iancudorinmarian, Submachine
dawn to dusk (2) - fabian771, RavingRabbid
kirbylover314 (2) - danil, Kuroaitou
Ryli (2) - worldwideweb3, Espithel

This makes perfect sense from my side of things

I think it VERY unlikely that this is scum/scum on d2d/RR given the nature of Kuro flipping town and these being the last two vote-actions on Day 1 prior to Kuro dying. That is my way of summarizing this train of thought:
* d2d-vote-removal just might be what dawn portrays it to be... an unsure townie not voting at all Day 1 (while strange and I think un-helpful to town in the long run, but I don't know for sure...)
* then I suspect RR's vote-removal might have been the same thing.

However, in a world where d2d is mafia (possibly?) his vote removal would be that of putting Kuro into the vote-lead to ML town!Kuro COMBINED with a defense of what might be scum!Dema given that would be the player d2d "saves" by his vote switch (mafia VERY VERY rarely swap votes/trains if both trains are civvy). I think it HIGHLY HIGHLY unlikely that if this was a mafia!dawn move that RR would follow-up with a similar last minute train de-boarding if he is scum!RR.

In a world where RR is mafia (possibly?) his vote would not hop as it did because Kuro was at-the-time already the likely lynched-party (of course some of this has vote-changing roles/effects caveats) and moving off to create another tie simply draws attention a scum should not draw when they don't "have to move to get a ML".

TL;DR- Hmmm, having dragged myself through the above thought process (as flawed as it seems re-reading it now) I feel a little confident (but not certain obviously) in stating my opinion is that Dema and Kuro are probably both town and d2d/RR are probably not scum/scum teammates. Of course Kuro is town (flip!) but if Dema was mafia the mafia-team would have been VERY unlikely to let it sit like that and risk vote-mod-effects nabbing one of their players on Day 1.

+

Spoiler for Ryli's interesting statements about intending interaction abstention...:

Ryli, what do you make of all this mess?

I will not be making any input on this til we have a Nightkill victim.

I think www3 has good reason to question you here - what can you offer as your thought process and reason for choosing to state your planned lack-of-input as implied by your statement here?

I'm still optimistic there will be NO NK victim. I'm optimistic mafia will forget or otherwise blunder the choice or that a protective role will succeed or something. Now, surely I do not expect everybody to be so optimistic but I would and am questioning what kind of motive would be behind publicly proclaiming you will not be interactive (a  very good town trait, usually) during a game phase.

+

Spoiler for kdz in here...:

Dd to answer your question on my opinion of rob dema and kuro

Dema: is acting like an asshole. I usually try to link myself with dema, since it makes me look town when he gets nk or we mislynch him, but I don't want to be associated with that list at all. It's bad karma rn. I think he's town though tbh.

Kuro. Was unsure on his town or mafia, but he threatened me so regardless I didn't really have another play that made sense. It was either vote on the guy I thought was town or vote on kuro who I thought might be town and also threatened me. I asked him why in chat and if we was serious but he never responded. Oh well.

Rob: robs doing his read's and yadda yadda. Typical rob stuff saying a lot of words without a whole lot of meaning, but that's what he and everyone else who tries to do reads day one does. It's all baloney until some gets got. Thus he's at no opinion for me

Anyone else dd?

BEIGE:
Can you clarify what you mean here? I am taking it a certain way but surely you are not being _that_ obtuse... ...?

TEAL:
This may come across as "taking it personally and responding" but really it is (you address to me) HOWEVER I would respond this way even if it was addressed to 'not me'. Your statement here does not hold water for me in being accurate about how mafia games work. EVERY post, even the $h1ttiest and bread-iest of posts, -can- have some sort of input into how players read other players. It seems lazy for you to claim that you cannot find any substance within my 15 posts (a small ratio for me I guess given 410 posts so far on the thread?) on which to have some sort of lean _or_ to consider them +/- as net neutral result.
??

Rob confirmed uncool, lynch him.

[UTAlan]

rob - What are your thoughts on Ryli? Since you said d2d/RR are not likely to be scum/scum, which do you think is more likely to be mafia and why? Also, I like your optimism, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up. Plan for the worst, hope for the best

Sola - Despite your dislike for Dema's persona (or whatever you wanna call it), what is your read on him, given D1 actions and how the vote played out? What are your thoughts on w3?

ian - You voted on Luna D1, apparently as part of the 1-vote chain that started early D1. Do you have any reads on Luna? If not, why did you leave your vote there? If you could go back and change your D1 vote (knowing what you know now), where would you put it and why?

kirby/danil/fabian/math - Do you still exist? Do you have any thoughts/reads you can contribute?