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Offline Demagog

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242118#msg1242118
« Reply #276 on: August 22, 2016, 09:48:04 pm »
So Rob always seems to post a loooot when he is mafia and under fire, like walls of text. I'm not convinced yet though.

As for Link saying he will lynch me, that's a bluff. Link knows I am the person most viewed as town right now, which is why he said he thinks I will be nightkilled. My duty this mafia is done though; I pushed for a strategy to give civs the advantage and it caught on for once because Linkcat didn't fight me on it for once haha. So kill me if you want, I'm only good in mafia if I have a power role, can manipulate people, or can bend the rules to my advantage. I can't do any of that in this setup, aside from what I've already done. That's why this mafia is boring for me.

Offline Linkcat

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242119#msg1242119
« Reply #277 on: August 22, 2016, 09:56:07 pm »
I said that to counter this statement you just made.

The town/Lc I know or would expect to see would probably have put out a reads list by now

It also bothers me that as a defense of my read you keep bringing up an event in the past that I've already said had absolutely nothing to do with reads. Other than that I have never had you lynched as town, so this point that you keep pushing is entirely negated.

The only way we won't find both rocks is if mafia started with a rock. Nothing we can do about that.

And now we have Dema trying to say that he was part of the rock plan, when really that was all me.
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Offline Demagog

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242120#msg1242120
« Reply #278 on: August 22, 2016, 10:14:58 pm »
Lmao Link, you're delusional. You posted the idea to use rocks and I expanded on it in to something we can use. You posted a loose idea and I turned it in to something concrete.

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242121#msg1242121
« Reply #279 on: August 22, 2016, 11:08:34 pm »
*stops munching popcorn and throws away the whole bag*

Okay, let's get serious.



So, here's something I find both hilarious and also concerning:

Number of people who used the message board for bullshit: everyone
did you expect anything less? it happened the last time, it'll happen again. when people actually get useful stuff they'll post there.

Actually... not quite; you'd be surprised what you could find with a few little references here and there. People are already making moves with their messages [not that there's anything meaningful necessarily now], and if certain players play it right, I think you could get hints about who is who (although, that could also expose them to mafia, but unless mafia has really intelligent code crackers, it'll be a better play for townies, especially as the mafia doesn't get the ability to steal items).

So with that out of the way, let me say this: I always let the first few rounds slip because I usually have some other game or thing to do elsewhere besides MUHFIA 100% of the time, and that my scumhunting is bad anyway. In addition, it's hard to 'ISO' anyone because a lot of sourdough and lemon has already been thrown around deliberately AND accidentally. Dodging the food fight is exasperating when you're trying to sit down and have a conversation.

But to focus:
1011686, Ryli (aka morningstar), fabian771, and UTAlan are the players with the fewest amount of posts besides me. Technically I have/had one less because my opening post counts as one too, so I have less than the first two users mentioned. That's still higher than UTAlan and fabian771 however. Quantity aside...

Even though UTAlan may be experiencing some real life connectivity problems (or hell, just some day-to-day business), I'm curious as to what his position is on the whole rob/Linkcat debacle. fabian771 doesn't have the same excuse though, so my sights are on him more, especially as he's not as fresh as danil is.

[snip]
From my understanding, Link just randomly said that Rob was mafia out of nowhere and Rob defended himself. It got to a very petty squabble, then they came to a resolution.

As far as I care, it looks like they're both mafia, trying to distance themselves. Both arugments presented were just as weak as Demagog's shitspewing, and I can't fathom any reason why Linkcat would act thusly.
#Conspiracy

I'll suppose we'll learn today, though.

I find this train of thought also fascinating, and I wouldn't put it above Linkcat's/rob's capabilities to manipulate the entire system if BOTH of them were mafia (rather than both being civilian). Not likely though, and a pretty absurd scenario in any case.

See, RR was towards the top of my list and he got nixed. Sorry buddy :'(

And this part right here makes me want to scold you Demagog. The fact that you gave the mafia a list of so-called 'priority targets' has more risks than benefits. For one; the mafia team now has an incentive to look at that list and create a narrative where certain 'top-skilled' players are spared for more randomized targets, making the top of your own list look like mafia... which, paradoxically enough, would mean that if you (the #1 on the list) are not killed throughout the majority of the game, will create a WIFOM situation where either you're a civy who is being framed by mafia, or a mafia who has created the frame on yourself because you weren't killed the entire time. This of course applies to everyone technically speaking, but the whole 'let's create a list of vv's and ww's' often skews the "more-inclined" analytical players into making terrible decisions in judgement.



I have an idea, but it's probably not gonna happen. I'll type it out later.

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242122#msg1242122
« Reply #280 on: August 22, 2016, 11:12:17 pm »
Spoiler for Response to Linkcat:
I said that to counter this statement you just made.

The town/Lc I know or would expect to see would probably have put out a reads list by now

It also bothers me that as a defense of my read you keep bringing up an event in the past that I've already said had absolutely nothing to do with reads. Other than that I have never had you lynched as town, so this point that you keep pushing is entirely negated.

The only way we won't find both rocks is if mafia started with a rock. Nothing we can do about that.

And now we have Dema trying to say that he was part of the rock plan, when really that was all me.

You have not read me. You started with a conclusion that I am mafia and now twist the thread to that predetermined conclusion (incorrect conclusion, I might add).

Spoiler for conclusion of wanting to mislynch me before even attempting to solve? (in post #89):
I'm not even going to bother asking the mafia not to kill me. Athena, you know what you need to do.

Also, rob is mafia.

Seriously, if enough players buy in to your predetermined desire to mislynch me followed by the mangling of my input to the game then that is how the cookie will have to crumble. As for my game time going forward, I will be ignoring additional attempts you make to press me on this poor angle you're taking and instead put it into solving/helping.


^-- This line represents my moving forward from Lc's awkward tunneled attack on me to widen my view to more of the players.

Spoiler for back to playing and solving - which I was about to post when kuro ninja'd:
Kuro - You have now been online a lot and viewed the mafia 62 thread SEVERAL times, one time even showing up as "Posting in", with nary a whisper or wimper about the game.

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I'll reiterate the pressure I stated earlier (that was just in a read comment) here with a vote. Please speak up - quiet Kuro is either mafia/Kuro or a Kuro being less helpful than he can be as town/Kuro.

Spoiler for My earlier pressure trying to pique Kuro's interest into being involved:
Kuro, UTA -

As somewhat experienced Elements-mafia players, may I request of you both a list of reads up to this point? We need players like the two of you to play well - or at least play actively - for several reasons:

1. You are both VERY dangerous if left alone to be silent/inactive mafia.
2. You are both VERY helpful as active town.
3. The more posts players make that are game-related the better off town is moving forward.

Thanks.

&

-snip-

Kuro - The more I consider Kuro's activity level (very present on his other usual duties... absent this game) the more I am suspect of him. Silent/Kuro I view as tending towards the mafia/Kuro end of the spectrum.Linkcat - *sigh*, I pause to go to hard on this read yet... but for reasons about his pushes on my very basic pushes lean me this way.

-snip-

In the interest of sharing and being open, I'm still posting the stuff RE: Kuro even though I now see he ninja'd me with a post of his own.
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Offline Linkcat

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242123#msg1242123
« Reply #281 on: August 22, 2016, 11:15:41 pm »
Toss the rocks around and hope they get to Artemis. She can then throw the rocks to the people she investigates, so that if she's Nightkilled we have some idea of who she targeted. That means don't give rocks to me, or any of the mafia like rob. Artemis should still breadcrumb her targets. Fake breadcrumbs from other players will also help.

Note that the breadcrumbing I'm referring to is completely separate from the rocks.

Link, how will we know Artemis got the rocks?

Only thing we can do is have whoever threw the rock and whoever got hit confirm in thread. We can keep a list of who's been involved in the rock chains. If Artemis dies and turns out that they are in the rock chains, and Artemis tossed rock(s) to people that have been confirmed civs by On the Hunt, we can get some confirmed civs.

So the plan works I think; Artemis has to just only throw rocks to people that have been confirmed.

Whoever throws rocks this round, don't reveal who you are throwing to until after the night phase is over.

We may want to avoid lynching whoever has the rocks. They may be instrumental in victory after all. Due to the priority of actions, mafia can only get rid of rocks if they happen to kill the person that got hit by a rock that night phase. The other ways to lose rocks are by lynches and modkills.

The rocks are like super-secret breadcrumbs for Artemis. Artemis (aka the detective) can throw them to people that have been confirmed as civilians by the use of On the Hunt. We will have a list of everyone that has had a rock. Once Artemis dies or steps forward to call out a mafia member, we can see if Artemis is on the list of Rock throwers. If Artemis is revealed by having died, we will see who they threw a rock to, and know that (if Artemis has been paying attention to this strategy) the person Artemis hit with a rock is innocent. If Artemis steps forward by calling out a mafia, we still get this information, but Artemis can also just say who all the civilians are.

I think I see your confusion, Dema. You think that it was your idea to claim rock throws in the thread, when really that was a given, as I said here.

Yeah, we'd have to reveal how the rocks traveled after the Night Phase. Night 0 throws can of course be ignored.

Here you bring up a problem and come up with a sub-par solution.

Artemis, if you have a rock this round, it's better to throw it than hold on to it. If you hold on to it and throw it next round after you've found a civilian, revealing in the thread who you threw to will make public that you didn't throw on the first night. Mafia would likely guess that you are Artemis if that occurred.

And then I share the better solution that I'd already been working on.

Dema, I've been thinking about this problem too, and I found the solution. Artemis, don't throw your rock if you have one. Everyone else, don't say if you threw a rock, and if you received a rock, don't say whether you received a rock or started with it.

Here you again try to push your sub-par solution and I clarify mine.

EBWOP:

Link, I think I may understand what you're talking about, you're trying to make it so Artemis can secretly pass along the information if they happen to have the rock this round. That's suuuper unlikely, and following that method greatly decreases the overall power of the strategy. It's much safer to just have Artemis throw the rock this round.

That was only for Night 0. Since Night 0 throws don't matter, we can hide all the information on them to cover for Artemis if she happens to have a rock.

Ah, makes more sense then.

Finally I post a clear explanation of the plan a few pages later.

Actual plan for the rocks:

Night 0
Of you're Artemis, keep it and don't mention it.
If you're not Artemis, throw it to whoever you think is Artemis and don't mention it.

Day 1
If you have a rock, say that you have it but not if you started with it or if it was thrown to you.
Only say that you threw a rock if the person you threw it to doesn't claim.

Every Other Night
If you're Artemis, throw the rock to the person you investigate.
If you're not Artemis, throw it to whoever you think is Artemis and don't mention it.

Every Other Day
Claim the person you threw the rock to.

Haven't read Kuro's or rob's posts yet, but Kuro coming out strong makes me want to lynch him.
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Offline KuroaitouTopic starter

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242124#msg1242124
« Reply #282 on: August 22, 2016, 11:18:47 pm »
Linkcat is mafia. Espithel is a town.

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Typing out a defense in a moment, I probably should have said this earlier but fudge it.

Offline Linkcat

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242125#msg1242125
« Reply #283 on: August 22, 2016, 11:22:29 pm »
Rob, what you don't know is that the reason I first called you mafia was because I didn't like your move on Ginyu at the beginning of the game. Reading through that again, it doesn't look that scummy, but there were multiple things after that that did, which I have pointed out and were mostly not defended.

After reading Kuro's post I want to lynch him less, but after his vote I want to lynch him more.
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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242126#msg1242126
« Reply #284 on: August 22, 2016, 11:25:39 pm »
For one; the mafia team now has an incentive to look at that list and create a narrative where certain 'top-skilled' players are spared for more randomized targets, making the top of your own list look like mafia... which, paradoxically enough, would mean that if you (the #1 on the list) are not killed throughout the majority of the game, will create a WIFOM situation where either you're a civy who is being framed by mafia, or a mafia who has created the frame on yourself because you weren't killed the entire time.


Muahaha just as planned! No really though, anyone that takes that list seriously is a fool. You think I'm familiar enough with people here to place them in such a list yet? Link's not even good at this game, he just posts a lot. I'm not even good, I don't believe a word anyone says ever, so this "scumhunting" you guys do is something I can't do. You all look like scum to me all the time. I put UTA high on the list and haven't seen him play much... I don't think he's even been mafia in a game I've played in.

As always, my goal in mafia is to tread the line between looks-like-mafia and looks-like-town. It's the best way to stay alive.

And oooh a hard claim. I'll jump on that, as Linkcat is obviously still delusional and trying to take credit for all of this idea. Also, him posting something helpful for town while being mafia is something he would do. If Linkcat turns out to be innocent, we can look at Kuro and Espi. Kuro isn't dumb enough to hard claim someone is mafia without knowing for sure.


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Offline Demagog

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242127#msg1242127
« Reply #285 on: August 22, 2016, 11:27:13 pm »
Oh and before anyone says "you don't believe what people say, but you believe Kuro's accusation of Link," I like to support people that make hard claims through the mid-game because it will reveal a lot of information.

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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242128#msg1242128
« Reply #286 on: August 22, 2016, 11:30:55 pm »
I guarantee you that is not a hard claim that I'm mafia. Also Kuro and rob aren't mafia together.
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Re: Elements Mafia 62 - by Solaris https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62664.msg1242129#msg1242129
« Reply #287 on: August 22, 2016, 11:31:28 pm »
Morning, everyone. I have unearthed a rock, from the deepest mines of Mount Sinai or Olympus or whatever, I'm bad at this.

Can we use the anonymous messageboard for posting rock things instead? That way we have a direct message as to whether or not Athena was the source rock, and we can just throw it back or something.

 

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