Elements Mafia 60 - by Ginyu

[rob77dp]

@rob, I hope I'm put down as undecided, not inactive, as you have made reads on people who were less active than me.

On Mafia, onion doesn't seem to be Mafia. I know many people who would do the same. Perhaps LC should have told him his plan after he knew he ain't getting much out of onion and ask him not to post. Quite a few people are posting random stuff with no purpose. These guys could possibly be Mafia, trying to put a code in or something. Link is neutral as of now, same for dema but slightly leading towards Mafia, so is rob. It's just my gut feeling. More on others later.

www3 -- I would notably disagree with your assertion of being more active than my other reads... can you expand on it for me? Here is a handy list of your posts since the re-start (all activity prior is of no import to current game/reads/play):

Claiming your old-game role (Which is something that can neither be proven nor disproved until end of game)

Your statement of being active enough that I should provide a read on you (I think this list shows that to be most false)

A small post about the on-going Lc-CleO-thing

you gave reads on people who had posted less at the time. you gave a read on d2d based on his stancre against him. I'm pretty sure my stance was the same.  Also, you said you gave reads on stuff that happened after restart, in which case, what is this "d2d - took a fairly strong stance on Dema's sketchy-ness about lying as civ (not confirmed is this was true etc) for game-the-first-that-was-cancelled"

Shear volume of posts is not what it is about. Also, I'm not really sure what your solving angle is in this here? Could you help us out by making your own post of a list of players similar to how I've done here? That would be quite helpful in addition to the short-form you did a few times today.

I admit to incorrectly marking the start of the real game when I did d2d's ISO (this forum has very poor tools for doing ISO!). I looked back and d2d still has a "better-ish" post current-game than you had prior to my list posting. So I will now update my list! Right, progress is the idea here? (Does anyone else care to join me?)

vv
none yet -- no vv reads yet so far

v
Sera - strategy ideas strongly hint at a town mindset, worrying about finding mafia and less about preservation/caution
Lc - notoriously hard for me to read... so far he seems to be playing his villagery game of giving fairly solid ideas and following up when addressed etc.
d2d - took a fairly strong stance on Dema's sketchy-ness about lying as civ (not confirmed is this was true etc) for game-the-first-that-was-cancelled is attempting to keep us all in-line focusing on THIS game to find the mafia in THIS game because we're trying to win THIS game.
JCJ - some critical thinking and analysis of plans/ideas so far without simply pandering to prevailing posts
www3 - is engaging me in discussion about my reads! yay, somebody playing the game! :-) Adding this to the short-post with insight into Lc-CleO activity is nice.

n / !wtf?
sky - Um, well it is an entertaining way to post and liven up the game thread but is a style I find quite hard to read as yet.
Espi - wtfmate seriouslywth? I gave a bit of effort to try to decipher your messages and found nothing really usable...?
UTA - I'm still leaning toward the state-when-you-are-hasty-searched being an OK plan/idea and UTA used/inspired this idea... so he comes in here with a slight slight slight villager lean
Dema - seems legitimately trying to solve and plan/strategize but most so far is rebuffed or shown to be unpolished or not optimal for town (having this be the second mafia game of Dema's I've participated in it seems quite plausible this is just his playstyle - hence neutral and not slight slight wolf lean from me)

w
Sol - so far just $h1t posts that I see and Sol is good enough to be helping more.. how 'bout it Sol?
CleO - not so sure his use of Arrest (if this is what has transpired -- that of CleO role-blocking Dema on N0) was a civvy thing to do... however, coming out with it like this redeems him towards only a basic wolf-lean from me // also stated "I'm not mafia" - does helpful-town do this? not so sure
math - no real substance yet... but math is not always the most active in mafia games - gets a wolf-y lean from me for his "I'll be back later to catch up" without follow-up yet

ww
none yet

Undecided / Varying-degrees-of-inactive
Discord
random
Cal
Sub
gino
Kuro
kdz

[Demagog]

Ya, now that we have already hashed out all of my "use the rules to get an advantage" ideas, I can't come up with any more. I will just try to be active and give my thoughts for now.

It should be a logical conclusion that my ability isn't very good. If I were a power role like the officer, I wouldn't have revealed that I was arrested. I don't think it's possible that I am the nurse, since the mafia didn't have a target and I got a message saying my Action was blocked.

[UTAlan]

Dema - we don't know that they didn't have a target. We know that nobody died. As stated previously, they could have had up to 4 different targets and the target was randomly selected to be a mafia member. Not a huge point, but just pointing out that you *could* be nurse.

[rob77dp]

Hopefully we've all been finding a way to bread crumb in the early days and somewhat-useful-but-not-always-informative posting going on so far...?

[Submachine]

Before reading up on what happened earlier, Uncle Submachine is here to present you his latest strategy.

Spoiler for Read this if you want context:

In professional mafia games, I noticed that players who put their votes on a bandwagon are instantly questioned and put on trial. In Elements Mafia however, it's normal to a huge amount of players to just join a bandwagon without any personal reason. This takes away the opportunity from scumreading other players. Giving explanation to every vote is not something that we could enforce other players to do, but I had an idea to solve the issue somewhat. Behold!

The Self-Aware Mafia Player Certificate People who sign the Certificate acknowledge themselves as Self-Aware Mafia Players. Self-Aware Mafia Players have the following traits: Behind every vote they cast, there is a reasoning that makes sense. When they cast their vote, they explain their reasoning publicly. They do not join a bandwagon by default, even when they are voting to avoid modkill. They only do that if they have a sensible reason for it, and that reason is not entirely someone else's. If they are being questioned about something scummy, they do try their best to explain themselves. If they are not scum, they do not actively try to look like scum, not even jokingly. If they do, they give an obvious sign of sarcasm in their post. Self-Aware Mafia Players can and should be questioned every time they do not give a reasoning for a vote. The more people sign up to the Certificate, the more likely it will be to scumread actual mafia/wolves. After the start of each new mafia game, the certificate signup needs to be renewed. To sign up to the certificate, quote this post and then write something that clearly implies that you are willing to sign up. By doing so, you will help the town's chances to scumread other players and you will also help making mafia games better.

[Submachine]

The Self-Aware Mafia Player Certificate People who sign the Certificate acknowledge themselves as Self-Aware Mafia Players. Self-Aware Mafia Players have the following traits: Behind every vote they cast, there is a reasoning that makes sense. When they cast their vote, they explain their reasoning publicly. They do not join a bandwagon by default, even when they are voting to avoid modkill. They only do that if they have a sensible reason for it, and that reason is not entirely someone else's. If they are being questioned about something scummy, they do try their best to explain themselves. If they are not scum, they do not actively try to look like scum, not even jokingly. If they do, they give an obvious sign of sarcasm in their post. Self-Aware Mafia Players can and should be questioned every time they do not give a reasoning for a vote. The more people sign up to the Certificate, the more likely it will be to scumread actual mafia/wolves. After the start of each new mafia game, the certificate signup needs to be renewed. To sign up to the certificate, quote this post and then write something that clearly implies that you are willing to sign up. By doing so, you will help the town's chances to scumread other players and you will also help making mafia games better.

I hereby declare that I sign up to the Self-Aware Mafia Player Certificate.

[worldwideweb3]

That actually makes it more likely that he's mafia...

CleanOnion (2) - Linkcat, JonathanCrazyJ
randomperson123 (1) - Sera
Discord (1) - rob77dp
Calindu (1) - Solaris
Submachine (1) - Demagog

Current vote tally. I'm waiting on link's response to onion's comment to decide.

[Demagog]

Dema - we don't know that they didn't have a target. We know that nobody died. As stated previously, they could have had up to 4 different targets and the target was randomly selected to be a mafia member. Not a huge point, but just pointing out that you *could* be nurse.

No my logic still applies to your scenario. Either mafia didn't target anyone or they targeted a mafia. In my mind, nurse would only get a "your action was blocked" message if they successfully chose someone that would have died. Both outcomes of the mafia NK vote would have ended up in me not getting a you were blocked message if I were nurse because my ability wouldn't have activated anyway.

Maybe I'm wrong and you get the blocked message no matter what. Only Ginyu can tell us.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

The Self-Aware Mafia Player Certificate People who sign the Certificate acknowledge themselves as Self-Aware Mafia Players. Self-Aware Mafia Players have the following traits: Behind every vote they cast, there is a reasoning that makes sense. When they cast their vote, they explain their reasoning publicly. They do not join a bandwagon by default, even when they are voting to avoid modkill. They only do that if they have a sensible reason for it, and that reason is not entirely someone else's. If they are being questioned about something scummy, they do try their best to explain themselves. If they are not scum, they do not actively try to look like scum, not even jokingly. If they do, they give an obvious sign of sarcasm in their post. Self-Aware Mafia Players can and should be questioned every time they do not give a reasoning for a vote. The more people sign up to the Certificate, the more likely it will be to scumread actual mafia/wolves. After the start of each new mafia game, the certificate signup needs to be renewed. To sign up to the certificate, quote this post and then write something that clearly implies that you are willing to sign up. By doing so, you will help the town's chances to scumread other players and you will also help making mafia games better.

I hereby declare that I sign up to the Self-Aware Mafia Player Certificate.

Post this stuff in the Mafia Suggestion thread, not in a mid-game mafia that already has a mad amount of posts because of a restart. I will not be signing this at all, because people have a right to play how they want to. You are entitled to slam people and question them on every vote, just as much as they have a right to vote how they want. Acting scummy when you aren't scum is just bad play, and not illegal, unless it amounts to game-throwing, which is already covered in the rules.
We are already talking a lot this mafia. It's brilliant, i love it, but this certificate thing is infantalising us.

[Demagog]

I'm not "signing" that. I disagree with the rule about not acting scummy as town. I think there are situations where it is advantageous to do so, especially when we play games with different rules all the time.

[Calindu]

CleanOnion (2) - Linkcat, JonathanCrazyJ
randomperson123 (1) - Sera
Discord (1) - rob77dp
Calindu (1) - Solaris
Submachine (1) - Demagog
Solaris (1) - Calindu

Why the random vote on me?

[worldwideweb3]

CleanOnion (2) - Linkcat, JonathanCrazyJ
randomperson123 (1) - Sera
Discord (1) - rob77dp
Calindu (1) - Solaris
Submachine (1) - Demagog
Solaris (1) - Calindu

Why the random vote on me?

you werent talking much, and hence, i believe.