Elements Mafia 52 - by eljoemo

[Espithel]

Well.
To those that want to say that what me and Link did was unethical...
Not only are you all completely, 100%, absolutely correct about it, but I wouldn't mind being lynched for it if you really, really want it to. No. I'm not even going to try and defend myself. What we did was bullshit to the highest standard, and my non-justifications for it make 0 sense.

Now, I know a few of you have... Some interesting leads that you'll want to discuss. I know Dm has one at least, about UTA, but until they present it:

Linkcat (1) - Espithel

I need to right my wrongs.

[rob77dp]

Linkcat (1) - Espithel, rob77dp

Randomized placeholder for me until evidence is presented and weighted and countered etc...


-- Applied to the order of names in eljoemo's end-of-night-1 post (where dead players are all at the end so random die roll can be set to never hit a dead player).
(Yes, I randomized Linkcat who is the same target presented already by Espithel for various reasons and very-much-non-reason.)

[eljoemo]

That's bullshit. We should at least get a warning.

I will freely admit I made a mistake. I should have given a warning for the day ending before posting it was over, like Linkcat said. But I didn't, I messed up. I fully acknowledge that. I have apologized to Coffee and hopefully made my peace with him. I'm afraid all I can give you is an apology and a promise that it won't happen again.

[Kuroaitou]

That's bullshit. We should at least get a warning.

I will freely admit I made a mistake. I should have given a warning for the day ending before posting it was over, like Linkcat said. But I didn't, I messed up. I fully acknowledge that. I have apologized to Coffee and hopefully made my peace with him. I'm afraid all I can give you is an apology and a promise that it won't happen again.

No worries really eljoemo. I probably should have stepped in sooner regarding what happened...

Actually, let me just make something clear.

Moderator Comment

MODERATOR NOTE: eljoemo, you do not need to apologize for any more 'deadline cuts' that you make - and likewise, you don't necessarily need to warn people about the day ending necessarily, as a person's activity should be the determinant in these matters. It is not your fault for giving a set deadline and abiding by it, and those who wish for 'future' extensions of any sort should be denied unless given adequate reasoning. As FGO, I would like this game to have no more extensions, to promote both fair play and allow future games to be hosted on a timely schedule. Thank you.

[ddevans96]

Linkcat (3) - Espithel, rob77dp, ddevans96

While what was done isn't against the rules, I dislike it enough for this to at least be a comfortable placeholder, if not my final vote this round.

[Dm]

Well, let's go for some stuff first:

@UTAlan - So, someone somehow convinced you of voting on me, for reasons that are yet unclear. I'm just very curious about the following :

1. Who was it? I don't know if you realize, but whoever it was managed to make it so you voted on me; so on the surface, the only issue me or anyone would ever have is with you, which makes you get all the attention and not him or her. This is a pretty scummy move to make with someone you plan to get the trust of.
2. What were the reasons given? I'm curious as to what exactly was presented to you for you to be convinced and trusting enough to vote on me. I'm really curious in what kind of rational, reasonable conversation would potentially denote someone as a mafia target from Day 1 with any form of certainty.

@Everyone else who did not vote or even post during day 1 (mathman, Kuro, etc):

Why so quiet? This is more of a detriment to town than anything else. I understand you may not have anything to say, but showing us you're alive and even saying something simple as "Yeah no lynch is prolly better" is a much better thing than not showing up at all. Flying too low under the radar is suspicious, even more so on this forum.

[dawn to dusk]

Linkcat (4) - Espithel, rob77dp, ddevans96, dawn to dusk

I would vote for that dayn to dank guy, he's pretty shady after all, but idk

Placeholders are fun

[Linkcat]

I'm going to explain my actions now. Please read what I have to say and think about it logically.

Eljoemo extended the day at 2 minutes past the hour. I looked up the run-time for Jurassic World and it's 2h 4m. Eljoemo stayed online so I couldn't use that as a warning. I figured I had at least until the hour mark. I wanted to wait as long as I could to give Dm a chance to show up. At about 15 minutes before the hour I started talking to Espithel to try and get him to lynch someone else. Eljoemo suddenly declared without warning that I was dead at 10 minutes before the hour. It was a total surprise. If Espithel and I had had a drawn out discussion and eljoemo ended the day at the hour mark, I would not have had a problem with it. The issue I had was that the day ended at a time that could not have been reasonably expected. I was obviously upset, and I asked him nicely to reconsider. He agreed and the day continued.

Now we come to the lynch. I asked Espithel who he wanted to kill. I would have agreed to anyone. He put up Coffee's name and we lynched him. On Day 1, the only person that you know is town is yourself, so from that position the best thing you can do for town is to not let that person be lynched. If someone does everything they can to prevent themselves from being lynched, they are either doing or pretending to be doing what they think is best for town, so you cannot read them as mafia for that. If you want to lynch me or Espithel just because you think what we did was unethical, which it absolutely was not, then that's just bad play. The only reason it even happened at the end of the day was because I waited as long as possible to avoid a lynch.

On the subject of who we should lynch, I want to ask JCJ a question. Last mafia, you were the second person to vote No Lynch on Day 1. This mafia you strongly believe a random lynch is helpful to town. Why?

[ddevans96]

I don't think it's unethical, actually, it's entirely within the rules. Mafia is a game of manipulation at its core. That being said, something about the way you did it sets me off. I don't feel like you needed to wait until the last possible seconds to do it in the first place, and in fact doing so makes it seem even more suspicious to me.

Actually, the fact that Espi is so ready to lynch you is even more concerning to me. I think we'd get more insight out of the situation from lynching you, however, given that you appear to be the orchestrator. But as I said, you are just a placeholder right now, given that I didn't vote last round. You're just a better placeholder than a random vote.

All that said, I'm eager to see UT and jcj give their responses.

PS: eljoemo, please don't end phases early in the future, to avoid similar siuations.

[Espithel]

Actually, the fact that Espi is so ready to lynch you is even more concerning to me.

I was even more ready to lynch Link before eljoe did the 10 minute extention.I tried to delay the conversation, try and make it sound like there's a little bit of hope but be slow about it until eljo ended the day and killed Link. I didn't declare I wanted to lynch him outright simply because then he'd do a 50/50 tie, which might not kill him. I went into that deal trying to get Link lynched.

Then the extension happened, and I don't know how, but somehow I completely forgot the entirety of what I was trying to do in that conversation. I think my reasoning was to do with Coffee somehow being... "Just as bad as Link", and this deal putting a lot of pressure on him on the next (this) day... But that's no where near valid enough. Mainly because the gruff I had against Coffee, Link had in 1000 spades.

I must've realised just how much power I had at that moment, and... Lost sight of myself. And in all of this, I didn't even get Link to roleclaim. That's the truly sad bit - I could've, at least, whilst I had his entire fate in my hand, learnt his equipment. That would've been smart of me.

But, put short, if you think there's some special reason I tried to keep Link alive... It's because I'm dumb. There isn't any.

[Linkcat]

@dd
As I said, I was waiting to see if Dm came back. I started talking with Espithel 15 minutes before my earliest estimate of the day ending. After the extension, we got our deal done in 6 minutes, and there were 9 minutes between Espithel's post and the end of the day.
Calling me an orchestrator is exaggerating a bit. All I did was tell Espithel we could lynch whoever he wanted.

@Espithel
If you had asked me what my Equipment was I would have told you I have three Ammo Boxes.
What exactly do I have in 1000 spades? You never actually said why you wanted to lynch me.

[skyironsword]

Linkcat (4) - Espithel, rob77dp, ddevans96, dawn to dusk
Dm (1) - skyironsword

This time, I have a reason