Elements Mafia 52 - by eljoemo

[Linkcat]

Wow, what a post. I'm going to explain everything in yellow.

rob77dp (8) - kirbylover314, JonathanCrazyJ, Ginyu, ddevans96, flyingcat, worldwideweb3, Espithel, UTAlan
Linkcat (2) - rob77dp, Kuroaitou
Kuroaitou (2) - Linkcat, MeowMeowCat

You know what, screw it. I might as well share my thoughts right here and now before any more damage is done.


Personally Linkcat, after the events of Mafia 51 I've come to realize that when decisive actions needs to be taken, it should be taken, especially if one person's convictions can prove them right. After failing to lynch Naesala during 51, and that basically screwing up the rest of the game (which led to the werewolves winning, doh), I vowed to be more assertive in trying to ensure the vote doesn't kill a valuable member. That's great to hear, Kuro. I think you would have been helpful if you weren't mafia.


But now I realize, speaking as a player in this game; your actions up to this point have been at best, inconsistent, and worst, completely horrible, and Espithel's deal on Day 1 is now resurfacing back into my head. But let's ignore that for a moment, and go for a different reason.

I've decided to analyze ALL of your moves Linkcat, and to me, regardless of whether you're playing as a bold civy or a reckless mafia, is becoming a detriment to town, and is the reason why I've decided to go lynch you.


Day 1 - You lead off the vote as a 'joke' of being impatient. Okay, that's fine. Whatever.

Espithel (1) - Linkcat

I'm impatient.

But after the confusing situation regarding 'votes, no votes, no lynches, ties, etc.', you decide to tip the odds against Dm (who apparently decided to play seriously this time) by moving your vote from Espithel to him:

dawn to dusk (1) - dawn to dusk
Linkcat (1) - Espithel
Dm (2) - skyironsword, Linkcat
skyironsword (1) - Dm
No lynch (3) - worldwideweb3, UTAlan, rob77dp

Nice try, Dm.

After Dm tries to get you to explain here, you refuse, which again, is fine, because most likely at this point you're being led off the train by sky (just like UTA, and several others most likely). Dm uses your own non-disclosure against you, causing you to change your vote off of him, which apparently resolved the situation later on... but then you suddenly come up with a reason to keep Dm alive, and after all the vote switches and whatnot, Coffeeditto dies due to town survival instincts. Fine.

Day 2 begins. After a bit of a toss up of people placing votes on you-

I forgot to ask. Does anyone know if a Signal Jammer was used last night?

None used.

Right here, rob confirms to you that Signal Jammer WASN'T used, potentially meaning that he could have used some sort of information-based equipment (Motion Sensor, Spy Drone, etc.), as he was able to get information. This however, does not prove that rob is an Agent however, nor does it prove that he even used that equipment, but it does show that whatever information you were trying to get on Night 1, obviously didn't work, since you didn't get anything. Hm. Maybe someone knew better and blocked you or themselves from your targeting? I didn't use any information gathering equipment on Night 1. I asked that because the Signal Jammer lasts for two nights, and I felt that was important information for town to have. Rob knew one wasn't used because between the five mafia, at least one got information.


Whether that makes you a mafia or townie is hard to tell, but after people began piling up those votes, your defense was that as you 'knew' that you were town, you did everything you can to ensure that you stayed alive so as to increase the chances of town winning. Okay, that's fine - except, by extension, a person can also know that they're mafia, and trying to save their team from a Day 1 lynch-loss via RNG without invoking all of their gang members (or mafia teammates); all that person can do is just mislead Espithel and persuading him otherwise to vote with you on a randomly agreed target (Coffeeditto). That is true, but since I would do that as mafia or town, it doesn't matter. Coffee wasn't picked randomly, it was decided by Espithel.


Then the debacle between sky and Dm happened. Dm (who we know now was innocent) posts this incredibly long post with this gem inside:

...
I am not a fan of holding information either, so while we're here, I'll just leave a warning for after I die:
Sky herself has said in a PM to me that she'd rather change her vote this round to someone else; Sky has also said that she was only voting for me because she wanted to keep Linkcat alive because, due to her own words, he was "important", and, apparently, the reason for this was because she was going to get item from a Supply Crate from him. Is this true? I don't know man, this is mafia. I could be lying on this whole post and be mafia myself and you wouldn't even know. But hey, bribing people to keep you alive with a Supply Crate doesn't feel very town to me. Neither does straight up threatening people to vote on someone otherwise you'd use an equipment on them and they'd die within two days; but hey, you're the ones following the lead. Sky said a lot of things, and most of them were lies. I don't really know why she said this. She had already gotten her Supply Crate refilled.

...

It'd be hilarious if mafia were announcing to one another that they were using supply crate on each other. It would also be more reasonable that you struck a deal with her acting as a civy.

A theory: perhaps, in your moment of creating an insider alliance, you offered her another use of Supply Crate with your own Ammo Box or whatnot, giving you guys more options to 'find mafia' (or hell, in your case, find/stop agents and manipulate sky against all other townies).

My own reasoning leads me to (sadly) assume that sky is a threat, and thus I try to keep Dm alive. I ignore the warning signs about you at this point, because, hey, someone is LITERALLY telling everyone via secret BBC personal messages to kill a target and lying to each different person about their motivations. Obviously suspicious at worst, crazy at best. Then THIS happens, showing us that you were:

a) accusing everyone under the pretense that lynching sky was all due to the idea that Dm was an Agent
b) ignoring ALL of Dm's counterarguments against you and sky
and c) trying to swing town into killing Dm after he outwardly unveiled a top secret weapon that could basically throw nightkills back at mafia players.
a) Dm was right, that statement was horribly incorrect.
b) From my point of view, either Dm or rob was mafia, and sky was town. Nothing Dm said changed that.
c) See above.


Dm dies. Day 3 begi- oh, wait, wait a minute:

I'm just going to assume somebody used a QWMT on sky. Whoever did that, you are terrible.

Rob told me and sky that he was an Agent and Dm was mafia. Dm was not mafia. We are lynching rob.

rob77dp (1) - Linkcat

Immediately, you jump on a bandwagon; fine, rob could very well be mafia, but notice the orange text: instead of the other possibilities of say, Flash Grenade being used, or mafia deciding to target sky (because sky possibly found out who a mafia person was... perhaps someone that was keeping close tabs on her as a personal quartermaster?). And then, you say the yellow text, which I decide to blindly agree with...
Mafia wouldn't have killed sky because that would confirm rob as mafia. Sky was likely going to be lynched today, but actually rob was because of her HACS. If sky found out I was mafia, she would have said it.

Does anyone want to admit to using QWMT?

JonathanCrazyJ says that rob is a mafia as well because he couldn't steal anything from him (what?), because Magnet failed on Night 2, and the idea that rob used all of his equipment (including a weapon). But remember my earlier statement in cyan above? rob has ALREADY used some sort of intel-gaining device on the first night if he was being honest. So it couldn't have been a weapon, because only one piece of equipment can be used each night as stated in the rules.

"All players may only use 1 piece of Equipment per night.
Both Agent Equipment and mafia Weapons are treated as Equipment, unless otherwise specified.
...
The mafia nightkill is treated as a group action and not an Equipment use. Only Equipment that specifies that it affects nightkills will do so. Mafia Weapons are treated as single player actions and Equipment uses.

Read the rules better jcj.
I already said this.

Finally to the more recent hour; rob77dp makes a response. And then based on recent developments, he used a 'delayed-equipment-effect' secret weapon that basically means that if both of them survive, jcj will get non-used equipment on Night... 5? Or whenever. This is irrelevant.

While this does not state that rob is a mafia (since his third item could theoretically be a weapon waiting to be used...), you SUDDENLY just move your vote on me without provocation, with your recent post of:
The provocation was that I found out you were mafia.

Well.
Here's to another day of being a mindless sheeple!

If that's your view, then you're in luck! You get to be mindless sheeple twice in one day. You may remember that Dm said in chat that someone had contacted him claiming that they were an Agent and Kuro was mafia. I was contacted by that same person. While I can't know 100%, I strongly believe this person is real. We are lynching Kuro for a number of reasons.

Again, manipulating Espithel just like you did on Day 1. Then you suddenly insert this new information about Dm getting in contact with an Agent (post or pre death?) and I'm a mafia. You believe this person. Fine - and this new guy is okay because... ? Whatever, moving further on.
That wasn't manipulating Espithel, that was a joke.

[13:24:42] Dm: Also, Kuro is mafia.
[13:24:56] Dm: (At least it's another info I have; can't check the veracity of it)
[13:25:17] Dm: Someone PM'd me the info that Kuro is mafia claiming to be agent, believing me to be town. Can't trust someone out of the blue though.

This guy is right because reasons I can't say.

1. H.A.C.S.  - Holographic Active Camouflauge Suit - This makes you immune to lynches for the next three days as long as you don't vote. The person with the next highest votes is lynched. The one sky got was from the Supply Crate, sorob might have the original. He did vote, but he just has to remove it at the end of the day.
2. Since rob was the one that claimed Agent, if he doesn't have HACS then it's likely that he is not as useful as Kuro.
3. Lynching rob is what the mafia expects us to do.
4. 100% confirms the Agent.

1. You know what, the HACS description makes sense, but if rob has the original 'HACS' (which seems a bit too coincidental, as a person shouldn't be able to start out with two secret weapons as the apparent ITDG was used to avoid Jcj's magnet) and apparently used it on Night 1 (which contradicts the cyan statement), then why did he even bother voting on the second day? Or hell, even today? He wouldn't even have to post, we would have just wasted a day lynch, thanks to your leadership.
TSPs were given out as freely as other equipment. He would use it Night 1 to be safe, because it lasts for three nights. He wasn't being voted on the second day. As I said, he can just remove his vote before the end of this day.
2. rob specifically said in his previous post that he NEVER claimed agent to you. You dismiss his post completely just like Dm's, without even arguing a, "Yes you did! Because etc." - then you go on the point that he isn't as useful as me. What point does that even have if 'we're both muhfia? It doesn't matter if a player is useful or not if they're not even on the same team! And frankly, your assessment can't be verified - for all I know, rob may as well be the one who is in contact with BOTH of the agents and thus is actually the most important person, and you're just a spy inserting yourself into all these contrived areas of interest.
There is no 'because'. He said it to me in a pm. He's not as useful as you because he was the one who revealed himself, and would use up all his equipment. I also announced that rob was mafia in chat during Night 2.
3. OR, it could just be what you initially wanted when working with your team, and then switched tactics when he began countering you (just as other civilians did).
I'm not sure what you mean by this. rob wasn't countering me at all. I switched targets because you were the better lynch.
4. ...if it does, you are not the Agent's best partner.
What?

Mafia is still restricted to one Equipment per night, so rob can't have used all his equipment. I have no idea why something would resist the electromagnet.

flyingcat, I also thought that it wouldn't make sense for mafia to do that. After Dm flipped town I figured it out. They did it for one or both of these reasons.
1. Mafia knew that having sky lead the lynch would look bad for her, and that Dm would be able to out talk her and get her lynched. Dm would be lynched the next day and rob would get away.
2. Rob has HACS, so he would be safe from lynches.

Your comment to jcj is fine regarding equipment usage and rules. But again:
1. A lot of people would have gotten away too actually. You included - the so called 'false agent' may as well be someone else not even in this whole situation, and you would have been next on the lynch list after Dm was confirmed civilian via a Day 3 lynch. But by that time, you probably would have had more people wrapped around your finger to use and play this blame game on.
A lot of people? Who?
2. If rob was truly mafia and used the silly HACS on the first NIGHT, when there was no brewing suspicion that it was him, it would be a bad play for so many reasons now that I think about it:

• it would contradict his statement towards you about signal jammer not being used

Explained by him being mafia.

• it wouldn't last him towards the more crucial part of the game (say, I don't know, late game where voting mafia is vital to ensure masses don't get screwed?)

Agreed.

• and would also be nullified by his voting on non-mafia targets (if again, he was a mafia with HACS).

It doesn't even matter if he's not being lynched.
[/list]

More importantly, how do you even know that he got a HACS? Did you use an RFID scanner on it or something? You are incredibly bent on trying to figure out who has the secret weapons, if any, and that seems more than just a power or information grab. skyironsword should have probably known better than to deliver her information regarding HACS to you, but to the final statements.
I wouldn't say I was incredibly bent. Anyone benefits from knowing who has what equipment.

However, they could not have prepared for two things.
1. Dm tried to get himself lynched.
2. I tricked rob into telling me that he was the one who claimed to sky. I suspected that it was him, so I told him that sky had told me that it was him. He admitted it and sky confirmed it. I was talking to rob near the end of the day and he was reluctant to vote on Dm. I told him that if he let sky get lynched then I would give his name to Dm.

1. ...this statement is absurd. Dm wouldn't get himself killed after trying to reveal himself honestly, he just resigned to the fact that you were clearly supporting the masses to follow suit after skyironsword  wanted to get him killed. You played the both of them, and now you're doing it again between us two, and I say screw that.
Your statement is absurd. Dm stated many times in the thread and chat that he wanted to be lynched. He was still voting on himself at the end of the day.
2. And here's the juiciest part.

You just told us you tricked rob into giving a false statement. Apparently, rob never even declared being an agent ever to you OR sky. Without her being able to give any input now, you may as well be lying about her confirming rob being the one who contacted her. But of course - instead, you said you would give rob's name to Dm for punishment if he didn't vote Dm out, and surprise, surprise, once Dm died and your puppet followed suit, you're trying to get rid of the residual evidence of your little circles between sky, Espithel (?) and who knows how many others.
Rob would say that as mafia or town. Again, I announced rob was mafia in chat. I was not coordinating with anyone else besides sky and my mafia partners.

But of course you're just an aggressive townie who's just doing what's right... right?
Right.


TL;DR - NO. Read my explanation people. This is enough evidence for me to switch, and frankly, I can proudly state that I'm not going to sigh this one off. I have conviction this time around, just like I did against UTA during the 'Threxes' based mafia.

rob77dp (8) - kirbylover314, JonathanCrazyJ, Ginyu, ddevans96, flyingcat, worldwideweb3, Espithel, UTAlan
Linkcat (2) - rob77dp, Kuroaitou
Kuroaitou (2) - Linkcat, MeowMeowCat

The problem here is that I can't do a similar analysis of Kuro, because the only thing he's done all game was to be the first to vote on sky, which fits with mafia's plan. It's noteworthy that he's been quiet all game but makes a huge post the moment he's attacked. We aren't going to be able to lynch him, so we're going back to rob.

rob77dp (4) -Ginyu, ddevans96, Espithel, Linkcat
Linkcat (9) - rob77dp, Kuroaitou, MeowMeowCat, worldwideweb3, UTAlan, kirbylover314, flyingcat, RavingRabbid, JonathanCrazyJ

If you think about how I've played this game, and previous games, you'll see that there is no way I'm mafia. Also ask yourself, if I'm mafia, who are my four partners? Even if I was mafia, rob would be one of them. If you lynch me then we're just going to have a repeat of last mafia. This is your chance to make up for it.

[rob77dp]

In ~16 hrs I will have good internet and can do some additional comments... Phone reception is so hard here (Sko how do you do it in the middle of nowhere California??).

dd is right on meaning of my "train" earlier.

Making good on this promise now as I will be offline from now until the deadline...

In addition to what I lay out a few posts back, Lc made statements to me regarding Grenade Launcher and targeting that simply do no jive, to me.  Mentioning target and usage of Grenade Launcher (in light of thinking I was toast soon (either NK or this lynch/day phase?)) to me, by Lc, is quite mafia-like since it is a mafia-only weapon.

That is all for now...

[Linkcat]

I can't give context without quoting PMs, but this was during one of our chats where rob persistently tried to appear clueless. I joked about Nightkilling and using a Grenade Launcher.

[killsdazombies]

rob77dp (5) -Ginyu, ddevans96, Espithel, Linkcat, Killsdazombies
Linkcat (9) - rob77dp, Kuroaitou, MeowMeowCat, worldwideweb3, UTAlan, kirbylover314, flyingcat, RavingRabbid, JonathanCrazyJ

[JonathanCrazyJ]

rob77dp (6) -Ginyu, ddevans96, Espithel, Linkcat, killsdazombies, JonathanCrazyJ
Linkcat (8) - rob77dp, Kuroaitou, MeowMeowCat, worldwideweb3, UTAlan, kirbylover314, flyingcat, RavingRabbid

I have extensively looked back on previous mafias, and Link is playing how he seems to when he is Civvy. His responses to kuros posts, and his explanations to me about our conversations do make sense.
It is also a quite extensive and effort filled essentially character assassination by Kuro now that I re-read it.

I don't know anything. This is the problem, most of us don't. All we can go off is our feelings when we read people's explanations for their actions. I just don't believe Link to be Mafia, and zero activity until targeted is a very mafia style timeline from kuro (though this could be bad timing).

All things considered, I feel like we learn the most by killing rob, and it also sits best with me in terms of gut-feeling.

[Espithel]

rob77dp (5) -Ginyu, ddevans96, Linkcat, Killsdazombies, JonathanCrazyJ
Linkcat (9) - rob77dp, Kuroaitou, MeowMeowCat, worldwideweb3, UTAlan, kirbylover314, flyingcat, RavingRabbid, Espithel

At the very least... Can you stop using "Because I was right last mafia" as a reason? That sounds so hilariously like a last resort that, even if you are correct, such a limp reasoning would never persuade.

And can you stop being a weird person who keeps joking about things yet expects to be taken seriously in some semi-leadership role?

Regardless, if you are so correct, I suppose the muhfia will just nightkill you. Oh wait. I think they've been completely fine with you... And, I suppose, me, because... Well. Stupid people make good chaff.

[Linkcat]

I'm not saying that because I was right last game you should think I'm town. I'm saying that this is playing out similarly, where I try to lynch a town day 2, find two mafia, get lynched instead, and then you'll all go "Oops, we should have listened to Link."

[Ginyu]

rob77dp (4) - ddevans96, Linkcat, Killsdazombies, JonathanCrazyJ
Linkcat (10) - rob77dp, Kuroaitou, MeowMeowCat, worldwideweb3, UTAlan, kirbylover314, flyingcat, RavingRabbid, Espithel, Ginyu

[Espithel]

I'm not saying that because I was right last game you should think I'm town. I'm saying that this is playing out similarly, where I try to lynch a town day 2, find two mafia, get lynched instead, and then you'll all go "Oops, we should have listened to Link."

Well, in that case, in mafia 46, Kuro made a huge post like this, and he was 100% correct about UTA being muhfia. And that was just gut feeling as opposed to anything else. Here's an even stronger huge post.

It's playing out similarly here. Probably should listen to Kuro, then.

[ddevans96]

I have extensively looked back on previous mafias, and Link is playing how he seems to when he is Civvy.

Yeah, but that's the point of the game if you're mafia, to blend in as a civilian using any legal means necessary. If Linkcat is mafia, then he's doing what he's supposed to do. Not a point either for or against him imo.

[mathman101]

rob77dp (4) - ddevans96, Linkcat, Killsdazombies, JonathanCrazyJ
Linkcat (11) - rob77dp, Kuroaitou, MeowMeowCat, worldwideweb3, UTAlan, kirbylover314, flyingcat, RavingRabbid, Espithel, Ginyu, mathman101

[Linkcat]

Follow these instructions after I die. Kuro and rob are both absolutely 100% confirmed mafia. Lynch Kuro and then rob. Seriously. Once the Agent has found a mafia, they will have someone post in the thread saying who it is. If the person named is not mafia, then they are an impostor. If there are two people who claim this and the second names the first, the second is an impostor. This process will repeat until something obstructs it. Once a mafia is lynched from this, if an Agent dies in the night then the person who posted is most likely mafia, but the second Agent should contact them anyway to connect with the first Agent.