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Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196395#msg1196395
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2015, 02:10:09 pm »
In,

I just don't see many ways for the addicts and criminals to hide if their is a mass role claim cause only like 1+x number of rounds will have vanilla civvies and on top of that the criminals have to find eachother

So, I hope I'm civvie :p
A world war? Am I invited?
Thanks to skotadi for saying this in chat. Made me laugh pretty hard, and fits with me not getting drafted. :silly:

Offline kirbylover314

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196412#msg1196412
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2015, 08:08:00 pm »
in

I support Unemployed Bunchies.

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196414#msg1196414
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2015, 08:13:22 pm »
In.
nice

Offline Legit

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196417#msg1196417
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2015, 09:00:56 pm »
in

Offline KuroaitouTopic starter

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196419#msg1196419
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2015, 09:06:54 pm »
Made some updates to some of the existing roles due to balance concerns - also, just letting everyone know, ALL primary roles have equal access to most (if not all, technically) of the secondary roles. Vanilla/Unemployed roles will also be spread out evenly to ensure that no one side has any specific 'profession-based' advantage. :)

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196437#msg1196437
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2015, 10:51:19 pm »
In.

I support unemployed bunchies.

Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196441#msg1196441
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2015, 11:44:34 pm »
Question: What is exactly the win condition of addicts? If one addict endgames with either or both mafia and town, does he win? If one addict wins, do the other addicts also win? Are the addicts in one team? Do they know about each others? Should they team up? So many question. ?_?
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Offline KuroaitouTopic starter

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196443#msg1196443
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2015, 12:02:28 am »
Question: What is exactly the win condition of addicts? If one addict endgames with either or both mafia and town, does he win? If one addict wins, do the other addicts also win? Are the addicts in one team? Do they know about each others? Should they team up? So many question. ?_?

In order:
-Addicts only win if they're alive at the end of the game (regardless of whichever side wins). So if they're alive and the only members remaining are Criminals, they win. If they're alive with the remaining members being Vigilantes, they win.
-Yes.
-Addicts are considered 'standalone' players, meaning that, if one Addict wins because they survived to the end, the others don't necessarily win unless they survived as well.
-Addicts are not on any team. They are basically free agents.
-They do not know each other.
-That is up for players to decide.

Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196444#msg1196444
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2015, 12:12:13 am »
I think addicts should definitely team up together to win
Im just wondering if people are going to see the addicts as inherently bad or good because if X is addict and they say "are you also an addict" to a civvie if the civvie is going to want to kill the addict even when addicts and civvies can be allies to kill criminals
If so, I dont see a way for the addicts to get together without exposing at least 1 of them as addict, can they get a search like the criminals, might be more interesting but of course its your choice
A world war? Am I invited?
Thanks to skotadi for saying this in chat. Made me laugh pretty hard, and fits with me not getting drafted. :silly:

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196448#msg1196448
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2015, 12:44:12 am »
I already told you about these in chat, but here are my worries so far:

  • In case of a mass roleclaim, the mafia Detective cannot hide anywhere. Town willng3 sacrifice both detectives if they can kill a mafioso with it, but chances are they will get it right on the first try.
  • The Addicts are not having equal winning chances as the other teams. In the end there are usually 2-3 people left alive, and because the game only ends when all mafia is dead, one of them will be a mafioso. This way, there's isn't much room for poor addicts. In past mafias, similar 3rd parties (see: OP Monstrosity) were always killed.
  • If i understood you right in chat, it's not against the rules that a mafioso reveals himself to unite their team. It's not throwing a game, it's just for strategic purpose.
  • Mafia not being united risks precious nightkills. Each nightkill that doesn't happen can be gamechanging. For this, it would be good if at least 2 mafia members knew each other from the start.
And we keep driving into the night
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Offline KuroaitouTopic starter

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196449#msg1196449
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2015, 12:54:13 am »
I think addicts should definitely team up together to win
Im just wondering if people are going to see the addicts as inherently bad or good because if X is addict and they say "are you also an addict" to a civvie if the civvie is going to want to kill the addict even when addicts and civvies can be allies to kill criminals
If so, I dont see a way for the addicts to get together without exposing at least 1 of them as addict, can they get a search like the criminals, might be more interesting but of course its your choice

The thing about addicts though is that I give any Addict player the choice to either fend for themselves or to choose a side. As long as they're alive, that's the only thing that's important to them, and if they feel that the Criminals would be a poor side to survive on, they would logically try to side with the Vigilantes, and likewise, if they feel the townfolk isn't playing up to par, trying to weasel their way into the Criminal empire might be a better option.

That being said, I suppose I'm up to the idea of giving them a 'Scout' function, which alerts them to other Addicts if they find them.

I already told you about these in chat, but here are my worries so far:

  • In case of a mass roleclaim, the mafia Detective cannot hide anywhere. Town willng3 sacrifice both detectives if they can kill a mafioso with it, but chances are they will get it right on the first try.
  • The Addicts are not having equal winning chances as the other teams. In the end there are usually 2-3 people left alive, and because the game only ends when all mafia is dead, one of them will be a mafioso. This way, there's isn't much room for poor addicts. In past mafias, similar 3rd parties (see: OP Monstrosity) were always killed.
  • If i understood you right in chat, it's not against the rules that a mafioso reveals himself to unite their team. It's not throwing a game, it's just for strategic purpose.
  • Mafia not being united risks precious nightkills. Each nightkill that doesn't happen can be gamechanging. For this, it would be good if at least 2 mafia members knew each other from the start.

  • In that case, Detective will be duplicated, but will be randomly assigned to any of the three primary sides.
  • Aside from the 'Scout' function I can add on, the other thing that I -could- do is to give them a different ability to help them survive, but I'm not sure what it could be... something related to pills perhaps?
  • Yes, but I suppose that would make me amend one of the rules in the starting post. I wonder if anyone else has any comments about this...
  • I will revert my 'deviation' from qwerter's mafia then: if two or more mafia TARGET the same person for a night kill, they both learn about the others, even if the nightkill doesn't pass due to majority rule.

Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1196450#msg1196450
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2015, 01:14:42 am »
Again a thing that we discussed in chat. xD

Addicts are stacking bad odds against each other. Not only they have a relatively bad win condition, but they also must take every pill that can potentially kill them.
To solve this here is my suggestion:

Rename the third party. Their primary goal would still be survival, but they shouldn't be scripted to be addicts.
Make addicts a tertiary role that is randomly distributed among the players.
And we keep driving into the night
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