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Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201361#msg1201361
« Reply #528 on: August 17, 2015, 04:48:35 pm »
Spoiler for Hidden:
After reading this, I made some thoughts and told them Sub, but after this post I will share them officially.

There are two cases: I am Mafia or I am not. Let's look at both.

a) I am mafia.
Taking the pill: Confirming a vigilant I am mafia. I can still claim he lies, but at least one civvy knows my identity now.
Not taking the pill: Looking suspicious, but not confirmed as mafia. I can still claim I feared a death pill or something, or I simply forgot to tell Kuro I take it. Also, I could say the Pharmacist was lying about me not taking the pill.

b) I am vigilante.
Taking the pill: Confirming myself civvy if the Pharmacist was civvy, a mafia would've known I am already via Search.
Not taking the pill: Looking suspicious, fearing a lynch if the Pharmacist got confirmed in some way.

So, in short: It is stupid for a criminal to take a light pill - it will immediately prove him mafia, while he could argue if he hadn't taken it, or claiming the Pharmacist was lying.
I'd like to simplify the case here. I kept poking you to take the pill and i even told you that it's a light pill and you are too active to pretend that you didn't see any of my pokes. So in reality, not taking the pill would have been the scum move, and you had no real decision here regardless of your faction.

Spoiler for Hidden:
Another note on Ruta:

Back when he gave me an :entropy pill, which I took on request of Sub, he didn't vote by himself, not revealing himself as a Pharmacist giving away suspicious pills. That he actually targetted me with this pill may have been a fluke, but he also may have known I have double voting power, trying to get my vote on a good target for mafia. However, when he realized what was going on, he kept himself out of it - despite Sub asking everyone to vote, so he didn't follow town's interest here.

Also, he didn't do anything for town until realizing he looked suspicious, trying to claim himself civvy. Of course, his light pill gave him a very useful option to get a civvy killed by simply lying about the result, and listening to Sub was another try "helping" town not to get shot self.
Yeah, i already pointed out the :entropy pill in my original post. The only real suspicion factor here is that a civvy Pharmacist who wanted to win the game should have sent a :light pill at least once. However, a mafia Pharmacist should have sent :light pills too to find other mafia earlier. He might have avoided it though in fear of being stalked.
The third option seemed the most logical, where Ruta was a refugee, but then why would he claim civ? This is 1 point of suspicion to Ruta.
Helping town when needed is something you both did when we asked you.

Spoiler for Hidden:
And if you kill the civvy, you lost.

I was active from the early beginning, tried to help whereever I could - yeah, first mafia, a bit hype - especially when there was almost no one else Sub could ask for some thoughts, because most people are inactive. As mafia, I could have just sit back the entire time, like Ruta or Root did, and then suddenly appearing not earlier than I am getting in trouble. Not sure what you need to be more suspicious than that.

The fact that I couldn't send these nice pills and so on is basically because I can't. But I used my extra voting power always for town, and always asked either Sub or jcj on who to target, and never failed. Unlike Ruta, who ruined town's plans on purpose at least once in that entro pill situation.

And Root claiming town, then being inactive while saying "oh I don't care, do whatever you want" and when he is targetted, he suddenly admits he was lying the whole time, but he has that role that allows him to hide so we don't "waste" our vote? I mean, seriously.

Another note: Hitmen, please be aware of the possibility of a mafia Security Guard.
Your first 2 points lead us back to my previous statement. Ruta already has a suspicion point for inactivity and not using his roles, AKA helping when he could.
The last point only brings the suspicion on Root. In fact, if Root is mafia, we could just kill him tonight. It doesn't matter who we kill, it only matters that our target must be mafia.
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Offline Ginyu

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201367#msg1201367
« Reply #529 on: August 17, 2015, 05:55:08 pm »
Your points seem valid.

If you are still online, you can move my vote on him.
Kuro, my vote was not on Kirby, just saying. It was a conditional vote, that my vote is only moved on him if Root was online, but he wasn't therefore my vote was still on Root.
So, the last standings:

I do find Root more suspicious than Kirby, who has been helpful thus far.
It is possible that his help was a case of "give them just enough help to trust you" but I don't think so.

kirbylover314 (3) - RootRanger, Zawadx, UTAlan
RootRanger (4) - Submachine, Ginyu, kirbylover314, jonathancrazyj
And kirby died. If Kuro actually changed the vote, it is all normal. However, if Kuro didn't, it means that there was some vote modification going on. I have 2 voting power, so either Root, Zawad or UTA needed at least 3 voting power to tie up. The Lawyer is dead, so only the Insurance Salesman could do it, if he got +1 twice. It is possible that the Salesman was just lucky two times, or he was mafia knowing well who was gonna die soon.
There are some interesting things that come to mind with that, but only if we know how Kuro acted.

Kuro, can you clear things up on that, please?
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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201368#msg1201368
« Reply #530 on: August 17, 2015, 06:03:05 pm »
Root said he is a refugee and used Hide.
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Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201369#msg1201369
« Reply #531 on: August 17, 2015, 06:05:39 pm »
Root said he is a refugee and used Hide.
But then kirby wouldn't die if that would be the case. I think it's worth mentioning now that Root has a voting total of -2, just in case town would attempt lynching him if i die tonight. I probably should have asked for protection, lol.
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Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201378#msg1201378
« Reply #532 on: August 17, 2015, 07:35:18 pm »
Soo, Ruta is online now. Someone tell him to take a look here. >_>
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Offline Submachine

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Re: Rutarete read this https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201379#msg1201379
« Reply #533 on: August 17, 2015, 07:43:44 pm »
Do I really need to rename the subject of my post to attract his attention? >_>

@Ruta: read up x)
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Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201380#msg1201380
« Reply #534 on: August 17, 2015, 07:44:48 pm »
Dang, it didn't work. :/ It still appears as Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou in unread posts.

Well, it was worth a try.
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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201381#msg1201381
« Reply #535 on: August 17, 2015, 07:53:48 pm »
So, he continued what he did the whole time: Nothing. No explanation about his odd behaviour or anything.

Do you guys still think I am the mafia?
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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201382#msg1201382
« Reply #536 on: August 17, 2015, 07:58:48 pm »
Given that killing only one of you has the risk of being game-ending and killing both of you doesn't, my vote is still on kill both of you.

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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201383#msg1201383
« Reply #537 on: August 17, 2015, 08:11:25 pm »
I want to bring up one more time the risk of a mafia security guard.
Just saying.
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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201385#msg1201385
« Reply #538 on: August 17, 2015, 08:15:12 pm »
Well this changed my vote at least.. Not like that it matters.

Rutarete (1) - Submachine
Ginyu (0)
Roll 1d2 to decide (0)
Kill both (4) - RootRanger, mathman101, jonathancrazyj, UTAlan

I'm considering if it is worth going after someone from these lists:

1 (or more) out of these 3 is mafia:
mathman101
RootRanger
Aknelo

1 out of these 2 is mafia:
Ginyu
Rutarete

2 (or less) out of these 6 are mafia:
JonathanCrazyJ
godisnowonline
UTAlan
Zawadx
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Re: Elements Mafia 50 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58865.msg1201386#msg1201386
« Reply #539 on: August 17, 2015, 08:19:00 pm »
I want to bring up one more time the risk of a mafia security guard.
Just saying.
Confirming Sec Guard cannot be done tonight. So we pretty much cannot do anything against that yet.
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