Elements Mafia 42 - by theelkspeaks

[RootRanger]

I should probably stop joining mafia games that have unclear rules. In other words, all of them.

[theelkspeaks]

I should probably stop joining mafia games that have unclear rules. In other words, all of them.

Would it be helpful to increase the amount of time between the posting of the rules and the start of the game to give more time to iron out unclear sections of the rules?  Having written up this game's rules myself, it's easy to see that what's clear to the host isn't always to the players, and it might be useful for the creation of better games to have more time to field questions about the rules.

[RootRanger]

To be honest, it doesn't seem like anyone besides me actually cares very much. I wouldn't want to delay the game for everyone else just for my benefit.

[Brusterix]

I should not have been wrong about Brusterix. Something went wrong, and I would like to know what it was.

I had Brusterix target ian in night 3, and ian targeted Brusterix that same night. The following day I asked Brusterix if he had received any sort of notification from theelkspeaks. Had he been the Armagio, he would have received a PM saying his ability failed. But Brusterix claimed to receive no such message, which made me think he was only pretending to be the Armagio.

Elk, could you shine some light on what happened here? Did ian never target Brusterix? Did Brusterix lie about using his ability?

The game is over, so I can get back to this issue. Something indeed went wrong, in rules. I left secret hint about the rules and skills in my last message

"I will die head high, death is only rule I comply,
but let it be known, Warden is not as strong as you think,
as my fate has shown, that skill will make you sink."

So let's see the rules first again:

* Armagio (EN) - This player can target a player and prevent that player from being killed during that night.
* Iridium Warden (EN) - Block target player from performing any action on the current night.  They will be notified.


I (Armagio) did actually targeted ian, and ian (warden) actually targeted me. I did NOT get notification from host. I contacted our mafia host via PM to clarify, as I understood the mess in hand, while I was still alive. I did got answer, but was not able to communicate to anyone, since I could not say I got PM from mafia host, as that would have revealed my true identity. So I honored rules, kept my mouth shut, left that secret message, and died. I also think I should have received the PM, since that was what the rules said, and how I also expected everyone to understand them. It was elk's game, so he can make the rules as he likes. However, as I warned our mafia host that we might have a debate about it afterwords, if not "fixed", like posting public message that "Armagio, whoever he is, should have received message last night", so ian would have know my role, instead of lynching me.

The rules written should have been followed in this case, not what mafia host originally thought, but didn't actually communicate in rules. So the problem is not rules, but not following them literally.

[iancudorinmarian]

Well, sorry about everything Root and sorry if I made you mad. I have one question though, why did you ask Brusterix to target Sub?

[CrockettRocket]

Root, itd be in our benefit to do elks suggestion because your a critical mafia player, and hearing you complain is a drag. Itd benefit us especially if you didnt complain lol. Thus, itd benefit everyone to get clear rules anyway.

[Elbirn]

Well played all, I quite enjoyed my first go around as a mafioso, and I'm happy to hear that I did a good job (i.e. no one suspecting me). Looking forward to Round 43!

[RootRanger]

Well, sorry about everything Root and sorry if I made you mad. I have one question though, why did you ask Brusterix to target Sub?

I thought he was mafia, and I wanted to feed the mafia bad information.

[Submachine]

One of my eyes is crying because Aether won in something.
Open discussion time!

In the beginning of the game, we got 4 roles of dead bodies: Shrieker, Graviton Mercenary, Vampire and Phoenix. Phoenix was the only (dead)power role, the others were vanillas and YES, VAMPIRE was exactly the role we got. Lynching Frozen simply because "his name was different than the others" was just lucky for town, because we used the role we got.

Another thing: town is increeeeeeeedibly illogical. Why did you act like you know that Kuro was the Deathstalker? It could have been mathman and it could have been dead from the beginning - as I explained earlier. I asked all my questions from elk about abilities before the game started and there was no way to correctly identify someone even with all roles alive. (and again town got really lucky with this guess, even though these guesses caused more harm for town than for mafia overall - luckily for us ^^")

I should probably stop joining mafia games that have unclear rules. In other words, all of them.

You should join mine. That'll be balanced.

[CrockettRocket]

Huh? The rules never said that mafia would know 3 dead vanilla bodies. Thats rediculous. They could roleclaim easily then. Uck, if i knew that i wouldn't have participated in this mafia. That takes the fun right out when mafioso can role claim and know their is no counter-claim. That actually pisses me off a lot. I knew that mafia found out a dead power role at the beginning though.

[Submachine]

I knew that mafia found out a dead power role at the beginning though.

Elk stated here ( http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-42-by-theelkspeaks/msg1157972/#msg1157972 ) that one of the power roles were dead and mafia knows its identity. But we wouldn't necessarily claim it, because if it's a targeting role like Deathstalker, we could be proved to be fake during the first roleclaim. But town went straight guessy and ignored any other possibilities than Kuro being the stalker - quite early.

[Espithel]

Huh? The rules never said that mafia would know 3 dead vanilla bodies. Thats rediculous. They could roleclaim easily then. Uck, if i knew that i wouldn't have participated in this mafia. That takes the fun right out when mafioso can role claim and know their is no counter-claim. That actually pisses me off a lot. I knew that mafia found out a dead power role at the beginning though.

The team will be able to identify the dead bodies of the opening scene before they were disfigured by the Psion's lightning and consumed by the Phase Dragon and Phase Spider.

Ambiguous, but there is no reason to suggest that it would >not< give us vanilla roles.
It gave us a method of escaping a mass roleclaim, should one arise, which it did.
And as a result, the town got burnt for it.

Whilst there was a problem with the ambiguity of the rules, I do feel that this mafia's rules were crafted well in opposition to previous mafias. Shame my idiotic experimentation caused me to not really experience it.

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