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Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135508#msg1135508
« Reply #132 on: May 08, 2014, 03:14:31 pm »
Go ahead and publicly challenge my role as Pharaoh. I want to win this game modestly, and thus do not fear any investigation of myself. I want to protect those that are my team mates by making myself a pawn. Ive anticipated by death and have plans for when I die already set down in words where many people can challenge them. It's called a titan pad :P

But is your investigation method really gonna be voting me off the game? When my role is revealed it will only be a draw back cause you can no longer use me as your pawn to investigate people so you can get a tad bit of info. It's easier to prove someone is telling the truth by homing in on a claimed role then it is to look at all the roles and figure out which person corespondes with which.

Mathmaticaly speaking:  Hunger possibilities: 1/5*17=3.4 mafia OR 1/4*17=4.25 these numbers were used because Hunger is ~20%-25%. It's almost a guarantee that there are 4 mafia members of the allowed 4 roles. Go ahead! Challenge that pure statistic. xD.
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Offline SpikeSpiegel

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135509#msg1135509
« Reply #133 on: May 08, 2014, 03:29:29 pm »

Instead of writing math, why don't you give us an irrefutable reasoning based on sound evidence? Easy, you can't.

But i can demontrate why your strategy is...weak? wrong? Choose a word...

You know my role, because we've talked and I've said it to you. You asked to other two people to do the same (ask to me my role). Now i'm your confirmed list.

You did the same with many other players.

What if i lied? And what if the others, before me, lied?

During first night phase you already had a table with a tons of confirmed roles; now or you can see the future (if so, gimme Bingo numbers, thanks) or you're the host of the game (nope, it's Kurotato).

Or, and this is probably the fact, you're just doing a useless stuff.

Mafia team members have the huge advantage to know each others. Civilians has the small advantage of being in a greater number.

To win you have to have a bit of luck, to analyze the trend of the vote and, in a clever way, to use your skills. Everything else is just..."fried air" (italian expression that means "something useless and no important")
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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135517#msg1135517
« Reply #134 on: May 08, 2014, 04:42:22 pm »
CR was trying a risky strategy. Whether it was working or not we won't know until Mafia is over.


That said, while you can challenge someone's strategy and be "afraid" of what they're doing, DM and Spike's attitudes and behaviours, especially Dm voting on someone he even believes is a civilian is appalling to me.

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« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 04:52:16 am by Kuroaitou »
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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135519#msg1135519
« Reply #135 on: May 08, 2014, 05:02:27 pm »
Even though I'm getting paranoid sometimes, without mutual trust the civilians have no chance. Still, we can't trust everyone. It's kind of a paradox here. I don't think we need to fight and let the mafia laugh at us.

Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135521#msg1135521
« Reply #136 on: May 08, 2014, 05:30:05 pm »
My strategy wont work anymore and we'll never know the result of my riskyness. I used fair logic and did exactly as nae said. :(

Ive got nothing left because of other civilians. Wow. Go ahead, vote me out, ive got nothing left now. Without change comes no room for improvement, if you want to play insanly doing the same repeated action over and over again, fine. Play mafia the same way with a different set up each time. If you want to improve then change the play like I did.

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« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 04:54:33 am by Kuroaitou »
A world war? Am I invited?
Thanks to skotadi for saying this in chat. Made me laugh pretty hard, and fits with me not getting drafted. :silly:

Offline Dm

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135523#msg1135523
« Reply #137 on: May 08, 2014, 05:35:53 pm »
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 04:34:45 am by Kuroaitou »

Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135524#msg1135524
« Reply #138 on: May 08, 2014, 05:51:20 pm »
"SLIGHTEST set back" it was the whole set back. The plan from the beginning was for Nae to keep naming me because I have 9 hp letting her voting power grow beyond the mafia and kill all the mafia while I commit social suicide in trade for learning those who are confirmed civies and their roles. I wanted psion to come to me, and the post was an option for a mafia to come and claim they're psion. Psion is the hardest to prove civie, so I allowed people to come and claim their psion when already knowing who psion is. Anyone who came would be obvious mafia for nae to pick away at with her tremendous voting power. You do realize the person with the fastest growing voting power was the forest spirit right? Im pretty sure their is no leaf dragon in the game as well, and his voting power in the game to increase isn't a guarantee. Before you say anything more to me, just be glad I dont reveal people's roles left and right. It's still a game and I don't want to ruin the spirit of it. You may have ruined Nae and I's spirit for mafia, in a bully like manner trying to destroy "delusions" as you call them. But I will not act in the same way you did. How can I stop myself? Cause I know the number of honest people that came to me. It's astonishing really. That was my end goal plan, how to achieve it fluctuated reguerally with Nae holding me back if any plan on mine was truly stupid.

One of my plans was to say I was sweet mochi in public, and then if anyone got angry and said I couldn't be sweet mochi I would know they were sweet mochi and would send a different more trustworthy ally of mine to go and recruit sweet mochi for nae to name each night. But then nae didnt like that plan, appearently she didn't want me to commit social suicide faster then what we had predicted. I gave her all the tools she needed to go through the game and win. I was in hopes to tell her to go to the actual real confirmed mafia after I died with a bunch of information and conquar for the rest of the game. But you guys ruined it being so negative for the past 2 pages. :L

This is the kind of tricks I would use while being completely honest in PM's to win modestly. :P
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Offline Dm

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135525#msg1135525
« Reply #139 on: May 08, 2014, 06:00:40 pm »
How do you know the number of hones people? How do you know psion when you said it yourself they are the hardest to prove? What does me dying have to do with your plans? Why were you willing to throw virus away? Why would someone who says you cannot be sweet mochi be sweet mochi himself? WHy are you pretty sure there is no leaf dragon?

Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135528#msg1135528
« Reply #140 on: May 08, 2014, 06:31:48 pm »
Well, before psion targeted you and mind flayer targeted you to confirm you and themselves (because I kept the psion and flayer apart from each other so if one of them was mafia they couldnt learn about DM without actually using the ability to target you) is how I proved flayer and psion. There stories matched when they had no contact with each other. Just like detectives. But to be 100% sure we had to confirm you. If you turned into a skelly after targeting yourself then you really were the skelly king now huh? If virus was unable to sacrifice, then he was the mafia and lied to us. If virus wasn't mafia and you were mafia then you'd die and you'd be exposed as mafia. I originally wanted you to target me, yourself and virus so you two would confirm yourselves and not waste time yet still be able to vote. Why would anyone whose not the real sweet mochi stand up to me when I obviously know my own role? If someone wanted to debate with me about sweet mochi after I said I was sweet mochi they'd call me stupid or whatever for exposing myself and that I might be lying and be in the mafia and claiming to be sweet mochi so people don't vote on me. (Same reasoning as psion, making him very hard to prove) I was gonna prove sweet mochi because they would have a much different approach to me then people that weren't sweet mochi. Mafia wouldn't dare try to deceive me because I obviously know my own role, so to say they're sweet mochi when I clearly, or am claiming to know myself as sweet mochi would be ridiculous and expose themselves. It was also rumored and I'm sure got to everyone ears that Im leading the civvies while the real leader can hide behind me and rule without the mafia being suspicious for quite some time. To my surprise, that leader was you Dm but you set back that plan too. I know the honest number of people because I went back and either confirmed with abilities about the people and to check "does everything make sense? Does it all follow one line of logic?" The answer was yes, I kept them all separate, and yet 6 people (and remember, only 4 can be mafia) follow the same line of logic, making for any of them to be mafia very slight. They'd be guessing to have done it. Or I was so stupid that I created a false sense of logic for them. To avoid that I had a 2nd in command that I told everything to that was intelligent and could stop me if anything like that was gonna happen. My 2nd in command though quit, making my plan absolutely flawed in every aspect because I'm not smart enough to be able to have done it on my own. I was willing to throw virus away if it meant not having to spend 3 more rounds trying to confirm every possible combination of mafia in those 6 people. I knew I would die before I got 3 more people to confirm 6. Throwing my life, virus', and half of yours Dm was worth it to prove 6 others. All 3 of us would have gotten a 2nd life anyway that no one would know about and help operate behind the scenes. Nae wanted herself named over virus though because through a line of logic I cant quite remember it proved mind flayer as well. (I didn't realize i had psion and flayer targeting the same person, conveniently it worked out quite well though.) This was gonna be the most bold move in mafia ever made. That was certain. Wether it was the plan that made everything explode entirely or we win without doubt. My science teacher: "I don't win often, but when I do, I win throughly" I wanted their to be no doubt that civilians won it, so much so, if my plan was successful the civilians would know who won 3 rounds ahead of time, and the mafia wouldn't.

The best part of this: It could be used in later mafia times for me to do the same strategy since no where did I ever get truly 100% confirmed as Pharaoh. That was the 2nd ideal of my plan that no one knew about. Spike even said in PMs in chat that he could justify me if I was mafia. Great strategy, +rep if you're mafia. Best way to hide anything is to put it in plain sight after all. Heh, I'm not mafia now. But I was planing on doing the same exact thing when I was mafia. No one would know either.

Something I learned from the book enders game: "I don't want to win this war. I want to win all future wars (with this same opponent we've had for centuries.)" I didn't want to win just this mafia. I wanted to win a future mafia. To me mafia is more fun when you're the mafia. Thus when I was mafia, I wanted to have the most fun possible and win. This strategy allowed me to do that. It wasn't exactly the best as a civilian, but if I was to ensure a win when being mafia then I would be much better off showing the plan as a civilian first. Being pretty much undevourable made it so I had no day voting defense but mediocure night defense. This was all I needed however was night defense because I needed to survive long enough to get enough of my plan set in motion. Once people saw the social suicide plan work as a civilian then they wouldn't question me when I'm mafia. @spike, in a sense you were right, Im mafia with this plan, but not YET, does that get +rep? Lol. Which was the important part. If you guys had just confirmed me before doing all this like I anticipated then I would have been able to use the same plan for when I'm mafia because you wouldn't have challenged me so much publically. If you challenged me just as much through a series of PMs it would have been fine. -_-
A world war? Am I invited?
Thanks to skotadi for saying this in chat. Made me laugh pretty hard, and fits with me not getting drafted. :silly:

Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135529#msg1135529
« Reply #141 on: May 08, 2014, 06:50:31 pm »
Back to the game!
Current votes, as I saw anyway, are:

CrockettRockett (2)-Dm1321, SpikeSpiegel
Dawn to Dusk (2)CrockettRockett, Iancudorinmarian.

Subtract your votes from me if you want to vote for someone worth voting on. Im out of the game anyway, do you need confirmation of this too?! Do you need to confirm that I wont vote anymore by voting for me? Then go ahead, do whatever you gotta do. For civilians to vote for other civilians that have exclaimed their roles and quit is just waisting days while the mafia target you guys. Btw dm, if what you're saying is true, then I'd assume your their target tonight. Only reason you wouldnt be that I could come up with is if you're in the mafia and lied to us. Or if the mafia vote for me or naesala because they just didn't want to hear us anymore XD. Have fun, if that's still possible for you guys. Mafia are looking at all this and practically exclaiming they won to themselves.
A world war? Am I invited?
Thanks to skotadi for saying this in chat. Made me laugh pretty hard, and fits with me not getting drafted. :silly:

Offline Dm

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135530#msg1135530
« Reply #142 on: May 08, 2014, 06:53:23 pm »
Quote
Well, before psion targeted you and mind flayer targeted you to confirm you and themselves (because I kept the psion and flayer apart from each other so if one of them was mafia they couldnt learn about DM without actually using the ability to target you) is how I proved flayer and psion. There stories matched when they had no contact with each other. Just like detectives. But to be 100% sure we had to confirm you. If you turned into a skelly after targeting yourself then you really were the skelly king now huh? If virus was unable to sacrifice, then he was the mafia and lied to us. If virus wasn't mafia and you were mafia then you'd die and you'd be exposed as mafia. I originally wanted you to target me, yourself and virus so you two would confirm yourselves and not waste time yet still be able to vote

MAJOR FLAW IN YOUR PLANS --

For starters, if I target myself, I only become skellie after being LYNCHED OR DEVOURER. It'd mean nothing for you or for anyone else.
After that, even if I targeted Virus and Myself, as I said in this thread, virus and the targeted person don't get turned into skellies. I confirmed this already. You'd be losing two civilians, permanently, for absolutely nothing in return. Your plan starts out badly - First of all, I wouldn't turn skellie. After that, you'd also lose virus, who is basically a free mafia kill once we get in later stages of the game.
Also, you asked me to target Nae. Not virus.

Quote
Why would anyone whose not the real sweet mochi stand up to me when I obviously know my own role?
Mafia can do it to confirm it. Free foodstuff. Other people can lynch you to confirm it. No actual reason for that except getting clearance and a possible ally. Not only the actual sweet mochi needs to do it.

Quote
. I know the honest number of people because I went back and either confirmed with abilities
It's been only one night. You can't even activate that many abilities.

Quote
Throwing my life, virus', and half of yours Dm was worth it to prove 6 others. All 3 of us would have gotten a 2nd life anyway that no one would know about and help operate behind the scenes.
False. Why didn't you ask Me? I think I know more about my ability than you do.

Quote
I wanted their to be no doubt that civilians won it, so much so, if my plan was successful the civilians would know who won 3 rounds ahead of time, and the mafia wouldn't.
False. There was no such thing as "no doubt". That's just pulling randomness. People can lie.

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« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 05:10:18 am by Kuroaitou »

Offline skyironsword

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Re: Elements Mafia 38 - by Kuroaitou https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54369.msg1135534#msg1135534
« Reply #143 on: May 08, 2014, 08:06:43 pm »
His plan may have been bad, but I don't think it really warranted attempting to vote off another civilian. That seems slightly hypocritical to me.

 

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