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Offline ddevans96

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524827#msg524827
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2012, 03:07:39 am »
OTL gave a perfectly valid reason why he released his element. Any player could do that. Yeah, it's different than everyone else's argument, but it's valid. You gain evidence for mafia through discussion, which is the whole point of mafia. A personal attack after they've already admitted they could be wrong is not discussion.
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Offline bogtro

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524838#msg524838
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2012, 03:44:22 am »
OTL is not worth significantly less than a civilian. Leaving him alive gives us information based on whether or not the mafia makes the decision to kill him. The mafia know who is mafia, and presumably thus know what the mafia's elements are. Therefore, the mafia will not kill OTL if the other Fire member is Mafia.

This therefore tells us a few things:

a) Mafia kills OTL, also killing a civilian - saves us the trouble of lynching OTL.
b) Mafia does not kill OTL - this is due to either:
b1) Other Fire member is Mafia - big plus for us
b2) Reverse psychology - leaves OTL alive, which still leaves us in the same situation of saving us the trouble of killing OTL. The same situation will apply in future days after the town and mafia have traded kills.
b3) OTL is actually mafia. Oops.

Instead, if we kill OTL
a) OTL is town, which is likely -
a1) OTL's partner is town. We have begun by killing 2 townspeople.
a2) OTL's partner is mafia. We have traded 1 town for 1 mafia, but this information is likely to be given to us anyway.
b) OTL is mafia. Success.

tl;dr: We have no reason to rush killing OTL. We can kill him at any time with the same result. If mafia chooses to eliminate that option by killing OTL, then we have achieved a minor success as the mafia has killed a player we would have killed anyway, therefore allowing us to gather more information.

Not voting for the moment.
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Offline blarp

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524852#msg524852
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2012, 04:08:59 am »
Luckily I'm not a mafia or this would be even more confusing to play... Now that I'm suspicious, I'm going to hopefully correctly, add my vote to helston....

Rootranger - 2 - Mort, ddevans96
Mort - 1 - majofa
ddevans96 - 1 - Cheesy111
bogtro - 1 - UnderneathTheLens
Jenkar - 1 - Shantu
PlayerOa - 1 - Legit
OTL- 4 - Laxadarap, Onizuka, RootRanger, 1world24
Onizuka- 1 - qwerter
helston - 1 - blarp

Sorry but his post was weird :P
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Offline Laxadarap

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524862#msg524862
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2012, 04:20:51 am »
And here is the bogtro we know and love  :P.  Voting Root in that case, hes one of my suspicious three.

Rootranger - 3 - Mort, ddevans96, Laxadarap
Mort - 1 - majofa
ddevans96 - 1 - Cheesy111
bogtro - 1 - UnderneathTheLens
Jenkar - 1 - Shantu
PlayerOa - 1 - Legit
OTL- 3 - Onizuka, RootRanger, 1world24
Onizuka- 1 - qwerter
helston - 1 - blarp
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Offline regen2k9

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524880#msg524880
« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2012, 05:19:33 am »
Rootranger - 4 - Mort, ddevans96, Laxadarap, regen2k9
Mort - 1 - majofa
ddevans96 - 1 - Cheesy111
bogtro - 1 - UnderneathTheLens
Jenkar - 1 - Shantu
PlayerOa - 1 - Legit
OTL- 3 - Onizuka, RootRanger, 1world24
Onizuka- 1 - qwerter
helston - 1 - blarp

I probably would have voted OTL before I read bogtro's post, but he brings up a good point.  My next two mafia suspects are Root and Mort.  Root seems more likely to me at the moment, so I'm voting for him.
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Offline Laxadarap

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524882#msg524882
« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2012, 05:31:51 am »
One more thing to note.  Why did the other  :fire not speak out?  Just food for thought.
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Offline Annele

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524906#msg524906
« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2012, 06:47:18 am »
Rootranger - 4 - Mort, ddevans96, Laxadarap, regen2k9
Mort - 1 - majofa
ddevans96 - 1 - Cheesy111
bogtro - 2 - UnderneathTheLens, Annele
Jenkar - 1 - Shantu
PlayerOa - 1 - Legit
OTL- 3 - Onizuka, RootRanger, 1world24
Onizuka- 1 - qwerter
helston - 1 - blarp

I have loved mafia since I was told to "make mouth contact" with the other dead person, playing at church. Elements mafia is even better!
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Offline McSod

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524914#msg524914
« Reply #79 on: July 24, 2012, 07:07:23 am »
Rootranger - 4 - Mort, ddevans96, Laxadarap, regen2k9
Mort - 1 - majofa
ddevans96 - 1 - Cheesy111
bogtro - 2 - UnderneathTheLens, Annele
Jenkar - 1 - Shantu
PlayerOa - 1 - Legit
OTL- 3 - Onizuka, RootRanger, 1world24
Onizuka- 1 - qwerter
helston - 1 - blarp
blarp - 1 - McSod

---------------------

Blarp made a vote based on an utterly arbitrary reason. Is it irony to arbitrarily vote him for it? It'll do 'fer now, anyhow.

Verdict still out on the OTL issue. Although Bogtro's list of scenario makes it seem like waitin' is the best option. Root leadin' votes doesn't surprise me, but really... It could be scummy, or it could jus' be Root bein' Root.
How come, when Bogie drinks during the day everyone thinks he's all sophisticated, but when I do it, everyone's just like "Get off our little league field!"?

Offline Laxadarap

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524917#msg524917
« Reply #80 on: July 24, 2012, 07:12:10 am »
IIRC, last mafia root was called out and he vehemently defended himself, in chat, on like 4 pages of forum, and he still got lynched as a mafia.  He hasn't said anything at all this time.  Meaning, hes AFK, he's learned his lesson/isn't worth it, or hes not a mafia.
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Offline Jocko

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524920#msg524920
« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2012, 07:19:58 am »
a) Mafia kills OTL, also killing a civilian - saves us the trouble of lynching OTL.
b) Mafia does not kill OTL - this is due to either:
b1) Other Fire member is Mafia - big plus for us
b2) Reverse psychology - leaves OTL alive, which still leaves us in the same situation of saving us the trouble of killing OTL. The same situation will apply in future days after the town and mafia have traded kills.
b3) OTL is actually mafia. Oops.

I think we should lynch him after a few turns if the mafia doesn't anyways. Because, if they don't kill him, b2 is the only case where it would be unproductive, while if he is a mafia, or the other fire member is mafia too, we end up winning the trade.

Offline RootRanger

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524925#msg524925
« Reply #82 on: July 24, 2012, 07:48:23 am »
Lynching OTL gives us just as high a chance of killing a mafia member as lynching anyone else does. However, if we don't lynch OTL, the mafia can kill OTL if there is no :fire mafia member for two guaranteed civilian kills. If we lynch OTL, the mafia is forced to kill someone they don't have element information on, thus risking that one of their own members dies. Lynching OTL prevents the mafia from gaining an early advantage. And most of us don't want that.

It shouldn't be this hard to figure out, guys. I really am disappointed that I had to explain it this much.

IIRC, last mafia root was called out and he vehemently defended himself, in chat, on like 4 pages of forum, and he still got lynched as a mafia.  He hasn't said anything at all this time.  Meaning, hes AFK, he's learned his lesson/isn't worth it, or hes not a mafia.
Umm, excuse me? My made-up defense didn't save me, but it gave us a lot of information that we wouldn't have had otherwise. "Learned his lesson?" Are you kidding me? What I did was a strategic move, and it payed off. I caused confusion and gained information about roles, which is exactly what the mafia wants. We would have won too, except the civs had some lucky gambling/seer'ing and Kuro, after already being dead, called out one of our mafia members.

Lax, I make mistakes. I have my slips. But you're referring to an intelligent, tactical move, and acting like it was a foolish mistake that everyone except me would have avoided. And that's just unnecessarily rude.

And yes, I have been AFK. For those who haven't noticed, I've mostly quit Elements. And the way the (declining) community is acting this mafia, I'm pretty much ready to take out that "mostly."
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Offline Laxadarap

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Re: Elements Mafia 25 - Hosted by Mesaprotector https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42146.msg524931#msg524931
« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2012, 07:58:48 am »
Lynching OTL gives us just as high a chance of killing a mafia member as lynching anyone else does. However, if we don't lynch OTL, the mafia can kill OTL if there is no :fire mafia member for two guaranteed civilian kills. If we lynch OTL, the mafia is forced to kill someone they don't have element information on, thus risking that one of their own members dies. Lynching OTL prevents the mafia from gaining an early advantage. And most of us don't want that.

It shouldn't be this hard to figure out, guys. I really am disappointed that I had to explain it this much.

IIRC, last mafia root was called out and he vehemently defended himself, in chat, on like 4 pages of forum, and he still got lynched as a mafia.  He hasn't said anything at all this time.  Meaning, hes AFK, he's learned his lesson/isn't worth it, or hes not a mafia.
Umm, excuse me? My made-up defense didn't save me, but it gave us a lot of information that we wouldn't have had otherwise. "Learned his lesson?" Are you kidding me? What I did was a strategic move, and it payed off. I caused confusion and gained information about roles, which is exactly what the mafia wants. We would have won too, except the civs had some lucky gambling/seer'ing and Kuro, after already being dead, called out one of our mafia members.

Lax, I make mistakes. I have my slips. But you're referring to an intelligent, tactical move, and acting like it was a foolish mistake that everyone except me would have avoided. And that's just unnecessarily rude.

And yes, I have been AFK. For those who haven't noticed, I've mostly quit Elements. And the way the (declining) community is acting this mafia, I'm pretty much ready to take out that "mostly."

Woah woah woah, other than "learned his lesson" I didn't even come close to insulting you, Hell, I didn't even comment on the worthwhileness of your defense.  All I was doing was noticing a very huge difference between last mafia and this mafia.  Also, read bogtro's reply as to why we shouldn't lynch OTL.  I happen to agree with him.
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anything
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