New tournament brackets builder?

[Scaredgirl]

Inorix has kindly decided to help us and build a scoring system that can be used with the tournaments.

So lets talk a bit about what do we need and what is possible.

We need to find answers to these questions.

1. How do players register?

2. How does the Tournament Organizer build the brackets?

3. How are the brackets updated?

[Inorix]

1. Either they are added by admin or register themselves. For a start, I believe we should stick with the first as it is a lot easier to do, and the latter could be implemented later.

2. A simple selection of number of players is sufficient. However, there might be a situation where the number of players is lesser than the spots. In this case, some kind of "bye" system is required, probably preferring pro players to receive a bye.

3. I don't know if storage of exact scoring is required. Unless it is, a simple click on the winner should be fine.

[Scaredgirl]

1. Either they are added by admin or register themselves. For a start, I believe we should stick with the first as it is a lot easier to do, and the latter could be implemented later.

Yes, that's a good plan.

It would also be nice if when inserting names, there would be a drop-down menu with and alphabetical list of all the players from previous tournaments for fast access. So when you add a name, it gets added to the database. This is not required for the first version though.

2. A simple selection of number of players is sufficient. However, there might be a situation where the number of players is lesser than the spots. In this case, some kind of "bye" system is required, probably preferring pro players to receive a bye.

Personally I'm not a big fan of any kind of bye system because in a small tournament like this one it gives a huge advantage to those who are getting it. I would much more prefer a system where the tournament size would always be 16, 32 or 64.

Unfortunately I'm guessing I'm in the minority is this and we probably should have a bye system. But if there is a bye, it should be totally random. Automatically giving "pro" gamers a bye is not fair, and only makes them easier to win again, making the gap between noobs and pro's even bigger.

3. I don't know if storage of exact scoring is required. Unless it is, a simple click on the winner should be fine.

Storage is not needed. We'll store the result on the forums.



I'm building a new Elements Wiki as we speak and there wil be a PvP section. The goal is to put all the PvP stuff like Tournaments and Leagues on that page(s). So if you get this thing ready, that's where we will put it.

Also if you get the system working, I really suggest you start a simple website where you put it for people to use (along with a donation button). There are ZERO free tournament bracket builders like this one and you might make a couple of bucks for your troubles.

[Delreich]

2. A simple selection of number of players is sufficient. However, there might be a situation where the number of players is lesser than the spots. In this case, some kind of "bye" system is required, probably preferring pro players to receive a bye.

If there's some easy way to count how many players have been entered (at step one), selecting number of players wouldn't be necessary.
Seeding of some kind could be useful, if that's not too difficult. It should be optional, with unseeded players being randomized in to the lower slots.
For example, if there's 18 players entered, the bracket would look something like this:

... with the highest seeded (or lowest, depending on how it's done) is placed in the #1 slot, the next in #2, and so on. Ties being randomized, probably.
If generating a non-full tree is difficult, leaving slots open would work too. It should be the last slots though. Full 32-player tree here: http://imgur.com/lSxHQ.png

3. I don't know if storage of exact scoring is required. Unless it is, a simple click on the winner should be fine.

Mistakes and misunderstandings happen, so it would need to be reversible. Exact scoring could be nice, but can wait.


Mock-ups follow, comments in [], generics in <>.

Main screen:
Start a new tournament [for admins only, click goes to start-up screen]

Active tournaments:
<list here, with time/date, string for brief explanation of rules> [click goes to manage/view screen]

Past tournaments: [or completed, or something]
<list here, as above> [click goes to manage(?)/view screen]
Start-up screen:
When: <some way of entering time/date>
Rules (brief): <some way of entering a string>
Rules clarification, if necessary: <some way of entering a string>

Entered players:
<x button to remove> <name> <drop-down or field to enter seeding> [a list of these]

Add player: <some way of entering a string> <"Enter" button> [possibly auto-complete from a database, as SG suggest]

<"Start" button>
View/manage screen coming later.

[Scaredgirl]

Yeah, that sounds good.

[Delreich]

On the start-up screen, we probably don't need the rules clarification bit at the moment, as that's included in the sign-up threads. Could still be useful though.
[edit] Perhaps a link to the sign-up thread and/or game thread could be useful. [/edit]

View screen:
<Title> [the same time/date/rules line as shown in the list on main, or something.
             could perhaps have something like "Tournament of <date>, <time>",
             with rules underneath, rules clarification popup on mouseover]

<bracket> [admin only: embedded controls for entering/altering results when public but not finalized (see below)]

<controls> [admin only, "back" / "make public" at first (as a kind of preview),
                   "finalize" once all results have been entered, maybe "unfinalize" after that]

[edit] Plenty of additions / changes below. [/edit]

-- Suggestions for future expansion
Main screen: Add status field to tourney list ("sign-up", "sign-in", "in progress", "cancelled"; possibly "completed" as well, making it all one list)
                     Perhaps a Hall of Fame, with the sixteen (or something like that) most successful players (scoring as here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,3403.0.html), though maybe 5 for wins).
Start-up: drop the "enter player" bits, definitely have the rules clarification bit.

View:

• title as above for all below
• when cancelled: show some apology, either a default one or something entered on cancellation;
                            some way to undo, at least for a short while (a couple of hours after cancellation, perhaps)
• when completed: bracket with all results, and a top4 listing and/or placing marked in the bracket;
                              "unfinalize" button, at least for a short while (a couple of hours after completion, perhaps)
• during sign-up:
• a list of players already signed up, partitioned if there are any reserves
• "sign me up" button, with an "(as reserve)" check box (for members who haven't signed up)
• some way of withdrawing (an "x" next to a players name perhaps; all names for admins, own name only for others)
• some way for admins to seed (seeding probably not visible to non-admins)
• controls for admins; cancel, preview bracket, start sign-in, possibly something else
• might need some way of altering time/date, rules and rules clarification without losing sign-up info (shouldn't happen, but might anyway)
• during sign-in: as above, except
• the list of players/reserves is partitioned into signed in or not (or just sorted and colour coded, or something)
• "sign me in" instead of "sign me up" (for those not signed in; sign-ups in this period are signed in by default)
• controls for admins changes to: cancel sign-in (goes back to sign-up), preview bracket, start tournament, possibly something else
• definitely no way of altering details at this point
• in progress:
• auto-generated bracket
• "back to sign-in" button (admin only), as long no result's been entered
• "finalize" button (admin only), once all results have been entered
• some way to enter results, including bronze match (more below)

About entering results:
It's probably just as well to keep this admin only, as this isn't much trouble at all.
Available results could be "none" (for matches not yet played) / "A wins" / "B wins" / "no game" (in case both players drop out) or something with  more detail.

About bracket generation:
Drop all entrants not signed in, move any reserves over to main list if there's room (in sign-up order, if there's only room for some), generate bracket as before.

About seeding:
Seeding can be done in various ways (as Daxx says here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1921.msg19709#msg19709)), which is one reason for why it shouldn't be visible to non-admins.
For an example of how I see the seeding working, suppose we have these Hall of Fame players

Code: [Select]

1. XxDevilxX    8
1. PuppyChow    8
3. lehomard2    7
4. jmizzle7     6
5. Irkalia      4
6. ragnoros     3
6. TheoCT       3
6. Silkenfist   3
... and five others signed in. If I seed them according to their HoF ranking (#1 as 1, etc), Puppy and devil would be in slots 1 and 2 in some order, leho, jmiz and irkalia would get slots 3-5 in that order, rag, theo and silken would get slots 6-8 in some order and the other five gets slots 9-13 in some order. Puppy, devil and leho would get byes.
If I instead seeded them according to their HoF score +1, three of the others would get byes.

[Inorix]

In process of waking up then i start developing, will report in every now and then, also i'm available on chat.

[Scaredgirl]

In process of waking up then i start developing, will report in every now and then, also i'm available on chat.

Cool. If you need anything, just let us know.

Good luck.

[Inorix]

For some reason if I'm trying to quote i get the error:

"The post you are trying to quote either does not exist, was deleted, or is no longer viewable by you."

Spent the last few hours pondering on how to implement stuff, and I will start shaping this into code now.

[Scaredgirl]

For some reason if I'm trying to quote i get the error:

"The post you are trying to quote either does not exist, was deleted, or is no longer viewable by you."

Spent the last few hours pondering on how to implement stuff, and I will start shaping this into code now.

That's pretty weird. Might have something to do with the fact that you are only a "guest" on this forum section.

[Inorix]

When the bracket is being generated, do you want the players inside a SELECT statement, so they can be still changed or is the placement final?

I can imagine some difficulties with the SELECT way but it is doable. On the other hand, it would allow for last minute changes in the tournament without discarding all the other placements.

[Delreich]

Not sure I know what you mean, but if you can think of a reasonably simple way to do changes then go for it.
A way to go back to player entry/seeding without losing the entered information would be enough, but if there's some way to change placement in the bracket directly that could be nice too.