Forum perspective

[Kuross]

PLEASE don't shoot me for posting this, but I just finished this up to post when it got locked. More than anything, I want to post it because I feel it has relevance and I feel the topic is a good one to discuss.

Are we a bad forum? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16085.0.html)



I've perused many a forum and been active on most of them. When I started here, I knew right away it would take time for my forum presence to be taken somewhat seriously. This is because most forums have certain "cliques" where the vets have known each other to the point they, most of the time without realizing it, exclude newer members. This can be attributed to several reasons, but the most common I've seen is that 1, vets will distance themselves from newer players because most of the time newer players won't stick around and 2, there's a sort of shared brotherhood amongst the vets. Much like soldiers in a war that have survived and now must deal with replacements.

As for the numbers of members versus the number of active members, it is actually more common than one would wish for but as others before me have posted, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Another thing to consider is general populace apathy. Keep in mind, this game, for all implied complexity, is somewhat simple in nature and most people that become members usually do so for the information stored on the forums. I mean, there's a wealth of information here and all it takes to access it is one little membership application and boom- you get access to hundreds of pages of information, statistics and strategy that not once requires one to post. When I first started on the forums, it took me a long time to go through most of the relevant topics and threads. Almost every time I would have posted something, someone else voiced the same thought, or something so close it would have made little difference, that I saw no reason to even post. I had to work at finding things to post on that were relevant and not to post just to post. I know a few others have taken an approach of spamming or random commenting on topics just to get their post count up and make a name for themselves. I was very tempted to do this as well because, quite simply, most things that needed to be said have already been said and there is a lot of repetition on the forums already.

Some suggested solutions for getting newer members more active would be,

- As Wolfy mentioned, put a link on the main interface of the game to the forums. This alone would increase the amount new players directed to the forums.
- Shantu hinted at this but, increase this forum's presence on Kong's forums. Too often, due to its ease, Kong members will just use Kong forums. We would need to make a superior distinction between Elements Forums and Kong's.
- Lurk in Kong chat, like me and Wolfy, and direct people to the forums any chance you get. There are usually at least 200+ people in chat playing Elements and many of them don't know of this forum.
- When talking about this forum, always point out it's the "official" forum so it will supersede Kong. People need to know this is where it all goes down.
- When new players make newb topics, work diligently at not insulting their newbness but help them integrate.
- If you see a vet picking on a newb for their newb question, police the vet a bit. Too many times I've seen vets do that, whether intentionally or not, and it goes unchecked too often. All that does is drive away the new player and further the elitist attitude perspective. Sure, some of the newbs may just be idiots, but it's the ones that may become strong contributors that get lost in the cracks as a result and that's the true shame.
- Tailor a few more events to newbs. Since most events are forum based, create events that are for newbs only, like a 10k or 5k and under PvP events. Since events tend to go on for some time, those that do get involved in the event will likely also get involved elsewhere.
- Get Elements chat fixed up and promoted. Yeah, I know this is a large undertaking, but as it stands, Elements chat is not as on par with Kong chat in that at least we can mute users that are asshats there and Kong chat does not require a second window to operate. A more user friendly chat would draw a lot more players in my opinion.
- When new players do ask questions that are redundant, like "gosh, why isn't there trading allowed" check yourself that when you respond you do so in a helpful way. Direct them to posts that already discuss the issue at length. Most new forum members are overwhelmed at the vast amount of information and they find it much easier to simply ask rather than sift. For most vets, knowing where that information is easy for us to find and simply linking it to the topic is usually more than enough.

It took me some time to integrate myself into the community and at times I still feel like a newb. I've worked hard at going over all the forum threads and learning about what I can when I have the time or need to, but there is still a lot I haven't been able to go over. Keep in mind I've been trying to do this for several months. Imagine how newer players feel when they first arrive here. If you keep that in mind, then helping these newer players transition into our little community will be much more fluid for them and hopefully we will expand for the positive.

[Phoenixrain]

I agree with what you say, I really want to have a custom picture for my avatar, but it will take a lot of posts to do that. That can either scare new people off, or inspire them to post more on the forums. Actually, the first thing that did to me was scare me off, but then, all of a sudden, I want to achieve that goal of being an active member, so I am going to be active on these forums and soon become a senior member. I don't post just to post.

[Ekki]

I totally agree with you Kuross, and I personally think this is not a "bad forum"...

I once were regular to a few other forums, and they were full of trolling and spamming. Here I yet didn't see any trolling and few or no spam, not counting newb questions, because they are as normal as needed to make the forum grow.

I guess the thing starts being nice to other people, and ends there. Zanz is full of work, so any improvement will take a while, and this thread is a good idea to promote what you say...

As I said, the community of this forum is a good one, and we will go on growing if the game keeps moving on and being promoted, but that's out of our hands... I yet like the idea of promoting the game on Kong, to direct any other active elements user here.

[EmeraldTiger]

     This is not a bad forum that is why i am so addicted to it. I like helping new folks out no matter the situation. my favorite area is the Card Ideas and Art section there are plenty of people to assist new people there.

     Perhaps we need moderator assistants for each main board of the forum. It would their job to first address new threads if there happened to be a problem or if someone is trying to find something. they would be among the first to provide feedback on a new thread. If a thread or post needs the attention of a moderator the assistants would pm the link of the problem to the appropriate moderator.

I am certain there is more that could be said here but for now that is enough.

[Daxx]

If a thread or post needs the attention of a moderator the assistants would pm the link of the problem to the appropriate moderator.

Anyone can already do this by using the "Report To Moderator" function. This makes our jobs much easier, so please don't hesitate to use it.

[Kamietsu]

I'm not sure how to start my post on this, so just pretend it's something witty and alluring to make you read.

I think, really, that you have a skewed perception of how to become a respected or well known member here. A lot of the veterans here have done a lot to contribute to the forum, and sometimes even the game. I was making a name for myself here rather quickly, and before I even had 200 posts I was already the first ever Master of Fire, and Event Organizer. I did join the forum before a lot of those things even started happening, but I went out an eagerly found ways I could help. Like EmeraldTiger is already gaining fame for his art thread which tons of people love, and are already using his icons he's made.

But I can see where this somewhat elitist perception and 'brotherhood' of us veterans comes from. And I can't say i like it because a lot of it is wrong. There isn't really a brotherhood among us. Most of us have just been here and playing here for a long time and have since become friends. Most of the veteran players I know, some who aren't even here anymore or as often, were really nice and helpful and I just simply started talking in the chat somewhat frequently and I already felt like not just simply a member here, but a friend among the community.

You get what you give, basically. The more you give, be it social interacting, art, card ideas, whatever, the more you are going to receive in return.

On another note, those 'veterans' you speak of that are being a bit of a jerk to new members, I've seen that a bit, and most of those people I wouldn't consider veterans. But I suppose that's just me personally, and veteran status doesn't come from knowledge of the game, how long you've been here, how big your Elements card collection is, it comes more from your personal presence. A lot of people refer to veterans as the people originally here, some of the most well known on the forum in it's early does, and I can understand that, but there were jerks then, and there are jerks now, some who've stayed since the earlier days. If they don't act with respect, they don't deserve to be grouped in with those called veterans.

[Glitch]

I came from a forum where 7 memebers single handedly scared off every single new member.  We don't have a problem.

[Kuross]

I probably should have pointed out that I don't think there is a problem here at all. As forums go, this one is pretty solid and has a wonderfully active community. Also, please keep in mind this particular thread is a continuation of a previous thread and not one specifically of my doing. I just felt there was more to say and I really wanted to say something in regard because I felt it necessary. I also wanted a chance to hear what others had to say as well

I guess I feel this thread is a good way to highlight the great community we have here and at the same time see what can be done to make it even better while showing potential pitfalls which may discourage new member particiaption.

[Ekki]

Then I think you should add you're defending the community in the OP (now I know what it means )

[TheonlyrealBeef]

I must say some newbs can be annoying, intentional or not. Just reading the same question thrice a day in chat will leave you speachless within a week. And before you attract more people to the elements chat, make sure there's room
The chat should really allow for more than 50 people

Personally, the most annoying kind of newbs I find to be newbs that refuse to accept their newbness. Stating lies and not listening to even a dozen "pros" stating otherwise.
The fact that you never know what kind of newb you're talking to makes me distrustful and expect the worst. I hope they don't all take my sarcasm too seriously (I try to make it obvious enough ^_^)

And if "pros" insult newbs somewhere please do tell them, they might not even realize it, unless they got a whole lot of insult themselves first that is >_< *thinks of all the trowling newbs in the past*

[Jangoo]

A meaningful "meta-thread" pops up every once in a while and this is one of them.

I've been here since day 1 and eversince cared a lot about this forum.
Here is why:

1. It deals with an awesome game in an awesome way (design, activities ... anything)
2. It is indeed populated by a very interesting community. Mature game-concepts
attract mature users.
3. It does indeed have an actual "societal" dynamic ... e.g., the mere fact that there are people
explicitly considering what makes a "vet" a vet shows that. So do all the explicit and implicit
rules inscribed in this forum.

I guess you would feel the need to "break a lance" for the better if you consider a forum
like this worthwhile ... something that contributes to the everybodies lifes in a meaningful way.
I believe only a type of "model-society" can do that because otherwise it would just be another
random place in virtual space you could just shift in and out of.
Contrary to that, identities in this forum are not really random, replacable or even exchangable;
they are modelled by the day and whenever you post anything there is actually something at
stake ... provided you do care about the very base of all this: Elements the Game as such. 
Granted, these identities are still pretty shortlived if you compare them to actual real life ...
taking, say, a timeframe of a year, a new "hot" deck-designer, artist, mod, master of ... will
pop up and the glory of the "vets" will indeed only be remembered by those who are vets
themselves. But for an online-platform, this forum and the people that populate it has a
pretty stable, longterm presence.

Now don't get me wrong. I was and still am a fierce antagonist of elitist behavior.
I totally despise those "up your own ass"-vetposts that just belittle newcomers even though
I sometimes act like that myself but is that really the problem here?
Couldn't it be that most people out there are simply not cut for a dedication that lasts more
than a couple weeks? These days, if you join an online community, those couple weeks are
usually supposed to be a long time ... are you really going to put up with more than that until
you finally "are somebody"? Is "being somebody" really what is in question here?
Or is it rather that Elements the Game is just not cut for binding everyone in the long run?

It may be hard to comprehend if you love the game, but there is an army of "try and error"
people out there that just stop by, check it out (usually with a "leech what you can then move
on" attitude) and move on if they don't really like the game.
The community, for most people, is in fact a second order priority here.
Among those that actually approve of the game as such, there is still a large number that may
not be all that "social" after all, may not have any time to get involved in the community ...
or they met a Jangoo, Kuross, whoever on a bad day, didn't get a chance to get to know them
better and moved on because community is a second order criterium for them when they
decide where they want to spend their time.   

What I am saying is, that "vetness" is merely a small portion of the "failure to integrate the
masses" you are adressing, Kuross. More than that, if a new user has gotten far enough to
even be interested in considering the community as such, this vetness quickly becomes
personalized and one shouldn't underestimate the judgement of the individual, e.g.:
Jangoo IS just the one dick you want to avoid (hypothetical  ) whereas Kuross IS that
awesome dude you would like to stick around for (hypothetical too ).

Contrary to that, societal institutions cannot be overcome that easily. This forum has quite
a lot of them and I still claim that they are generally problematic.
At the same time, they add a sense of seriousness to this forum that keeps things in a
"societal" order, hit and run internetlers at bay and the content of the forum meaningful ...