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Offline moomooseTopic starter

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cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg541657#msg541657
« on: September 13, 2012, 10:18:13 pm »
so the level two voting was supposed to have concluded almost a month ago, and in both cases the winner at the end of the original period is no longer the winner at the time of this post.  has the length of the polls been expanded?

and a lesser issue, more of a seeking improvement thing- over the years i have noticed a strange phenomena in voting where the previous month's runner up will often not maintain the support in the following month.  case in point the aetheric guard which iirc lost in a tiebreaker last month but this month failed to garner sufficient votes to stay in.  my suggestion would be there being some sort of carry-over bonus to the previous month's runner up in the polls, anything from a simple symbol in the poll list that it was the runner up the previous month, or as much as giving some amount of bonus votes at the start of the polling period.

obviously the polls are meaning less and less as the months go by without further development, but if nothing else it is still something of a hobby, however marginalized it may become.
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Offline Ajit

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg541663#msg541663
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2012, 10:24:14 pm »
I see no reason why one should get a bonus, really.  If it lost buzz, then that's all it ever had.

On the note of improving, I DO think one way to helping the polls perhaps a tad is that you are forced to vote for the max allowed (this is a setting that can be controlled in the poll setup I believe).

So if a poll says "You can only vote for 5 cards", you have to vote for 5.

this;
  • increases voting participation
  • likely keeps people from just voting for their own card if they choose to vote

Offline moomooseTopic starter

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg541666#msg541666
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 10:45:32 pm »
im not entirely sure if its a matter of losing buzz or people forgetting to vote for it a second time.  a simple recognition of the runner ups i think would suffice to remind people to take a look at it again, rather than the potential that they saw it with a lead before and either assumed it moved on or some other error.

i do agree with increasing the minimum votes, too.
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Offline russianspy1234

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg541670#msg541670
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 10:49:48 pm »
im not entirely sure if its a matter of losing buzz or people forgetting to vote for it a second time.  a simple recognition of the runner ups i think would suffice to remind people to take a look at it again, rather than the potential that they saw it with a lead before and either assumed it moved on or some other error.

i do agree with increasing the minimum votes, too.

yeah ive had a card tie for first multiple times though it's still in the polls.  The most nerve wracking one was mice frozen ancient card, which alternated between runner up and almost getting voted off for like 5 cycles.
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Offline Rutarete

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg541793#msg541793
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2012, 04:43:53 am »
a strange phenomena in voting where the previous month's runner up will often not maintain the support in the following month.  case in point the aetheric guard which iirc lost in a tiebreaker last month but this month failed to garner sufficient votes to stay in.  my suggestion would be there being some sort of carry-over bonus to the previous month's runner up in the polls, anything from a simple symbol in the poll list that it was the runner up the previous month, or as much as giving some amount of bonus votes at the start of the polling period.
I've noticed this quite a bit also. I like your suggestion.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg541804#msg541804
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2012, 05:20:26 am »
Ideally the polls would not be reset, options would be added/removed from the poll & members could change their votes.

Polls not being reset lets momentum be conserved.
Players would still need to change their votes as they consider the new entries and regain votes from winning cards.

However I do not think this is currently available so we would need some resourceful people to find a solution. [+Gratitude and Fame]
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 05:24:36 am by OldTrees »
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Offline russianspy1234

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg541892#msg541892
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2012, 05:16:12 pm »
Ideally the polls would not be reset, options would be added/removed from the poll & members could change their votes.

Polls not being reset lets momentum be conserved.
Players would still need to change their votes as they consider the new entries and regain votes from winning cards.

However I do not think this is currently available so we would need some resourceful people to find a solution. [+Gratitude and Fame]

Not resetting at all isn't good because one time voters or users who stop using the forum but have voted might keep a card at say 3-4 votes and leave it on the poll forever.  It's not a huge problem, but I don't think it's the best solution.  Something where the runner ups get a bonus vote or 2 to the next round is ideal I think.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg1000576#msg1000576
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 01:02:40 am »
Yay for reform and stuff. Going to dump all of my ideas here.

Member statuses. There needs to be a way to differentiate members with more experience and less. I propose a separate version of "rep" that is more easily given out to insightful or correct judgements of members. Both PvP, meta, and balance will be factored in to determine how good of a card designer someone is.
Spoiler for Hidden:
Newbie member: Can only post comments.
New member: Can post card ideas and give up to +1 approval to cards.
Member: Can post card ideas and give up to +2 approval to cards. Can vote in higher level polls.
Veteran member: Can post card ideas and give up to +3 approval to cards. Can vote in higher level polls.
Council member: Can give up to +3 approval to cards. Votes count more than a veteran member's.

Council members should be chosen from a group of people who are quite skilled at balance, creativity, and PvP (For example, OT, majofa, zblader). Council members here should be willing to abstain from posting card ideas of their own because it may cause subjective bias.

Crucible changes:
The very first thing I'd like to draw attention is the fact that crucible guidelines seem to be sort of pedantic. Why do we need the "name" "text" and everything carefully filled out when you can see the card right there? It seems that the only guideline to entering the crucible is making a card and it fulfills the requirements. I propose a change of this:
Spoiler for Hidden:
Code: [Select]
[table][tr][td][center][img]
http://***InternetAddressOfCardImage.jpg***
[/img][/center][/td][td][center][img]
http://***InternetAddressOfUpgradedCardImage.jpg***
[/img][/center][/td][/tr][tr][td][table][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299]NAME: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert name***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] ELEMENT: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert element***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] COST: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert cost***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] TYPE: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert type***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] ATK|HP: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert att|hp***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] TEXT: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert card text***
[/td][/tr][/table][/td]

[td][table][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] NAME: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert name (upgraded)***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] ELEMENT: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert element (upgraded)***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] COST: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert cost (upgraded)***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] TYPE: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert type (upgraded)***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] ATK|HP: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert att|hp (upgraded)***
[/td][/tr][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] TEXT: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert card text (upgraded)***
[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][td][table][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] ART: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert artist name***
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] IDEA: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert card maker name***
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] NOTES: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert additional information***
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] SERIES: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert series name and link to series page (if any)***
[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]

To :
Spoiler for Hidden:
Code: [Select]
[table][tr][td][center][img]
http://***InternetAddressOfCardImage.jpg***
[/img][/center][/td][td][center][img]
http://***InternetAddressOfUpgradedCardImage.jpg***
[/img][/center][/td][/tr]
[table][tr][td][table][tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] ART: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert artist name***
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] IDEA: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert card maker name***
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] THEMATICS: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Explain why this card fits the element/name/ability ***
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] MECHANICS: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Go more in depth about the mechanics to clear up any misunderstandings***
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] SYNERGIES: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***List at least 3 synergies involving this card both unupped and upped. At least 1 of each needs to be done. Also explain what your card brings to the game***
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] EXAMPLE DECK: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Post an example of a deck to give other people a way to see how this card would be used in game***
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][right][b][size=8pt][color=#C9C299] SERIES: [/color][/size][/b][/right][/td][td]
***Insert series name and link to series page (if any)***
[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]

Spoiler for example:
ART:
Zblader
IDEA:
furballdn
THEMATICS:
Stolas was a wise great prince of hell who often took the form of an owl. His leadership qualities are shown by him commanding other winged creatures to protect permanents. The fact it costs :rainbow after upgraded is just like animate weapon. I wanted to show the fluidity of :air. Besides, air isn't the only element that makes use of airborne creatures.
MECHANICS:
As long as one Stolas with an active ability is on your field, the protection will take place.
For every one airborne creature you own, one of stack of your permanents is protected.
Protection order goes from 1 to 19, with 4 being the shield and 10 being the weapon.
SYNERGIES:
Quintessence, Shard of Freedom, Wings
Allows anti-PC, as well as increasing :air's defenses.
EXAMPLE DECK:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
7ms 7ms 7ms 7ms 7ms 7ms 7ms 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mv 7mv 7mv 7mv 7n5 7n5 7n5 7n7 7n7 7n8 7n8 7n8 7n8 7n8 8pr

SERIES:


This changes crucible entering guidelines from "being careful while filling in tables" to "Needing thought into creating a card". This method means that players will have to invest more energy and thinking when creating their card as well as think up of synergies, stopping many "spur of the moment" card ideas that pop up.

Crucible guidelines:

A card needs 12 approval points before it can enter crucible. Entering will be done the same way now, but only cards with 12 approval points in the crucible candidates thread will be allowed to enter.

How does a card get approval points? Simply by having other members comment on it. Members can give from 0-3 approval points on a single card.

Spoiler for examples:
This card is OP because with 3 :fire, you can do 40 damage. No approval +0.
This card has the same stats as a frog but costs as much as a dragon and its ability is not very useful. No approval +0.
This concept has been done before many many times, and is quite boring. No approval from me. +0.
This card seems relatively balanced. +1 approval.
I can't find anything wrong about this card, but it doesn't really appeal to me. +1 approval.
This card seems to have a great concept, but could use some fine tuning. +1 approval.
This seems like an interesting idea. +2 approval.
This card is just fantastic. I'll gladly support it. +3 approval.

Once a card gets 12 approval points it can go into the forge.

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg1002500#msg1002500
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2012, 12:34:11 am »
It would be very useful, I think, to provide a means of polling cards based on more than just "which are your top N favorites". This doesn't really provide much useful information to the author or other card makers.
A good alternative would be to allow users to rate each card based on various aspects of its design.
For example, have polling that looked something like this:

On a scale of 1 to 5 (1=best, 5= worst) rate this card based on
12345
Mechanics:_____
Originality:_____
Overall impression:_____
etc...

Granted, at the crucible level, this may be too much of an overload, but at the higher levels such as forge and armory, it would give a good way to help authors refine card ideas.
Right now, it seems like there is relatively little feedback after the smithy and crucible stage, and the results of voting don't really give card makers much to go off of as to why the various concepts succeeded or failed.
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
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Offline furballdn

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg1008484#msg1008484
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 11:11:56 pm »
Too lazy to make a new thread for such a simple request. On the weekly poll winners thread, do all the card images have to be linked? It seems to make the page load really slowly. Perhaps just have links for the losers with a elemental icon name, and link to archived ideas, sort of like how ideas are presented in the crucible.

Offline ddevans96

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg1008485#msg1008485
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2012, 11:12:47 pm »
Too lazy to make a new thread for such a simple request. On the weekly poll winners thread, do all the card images have to be linked? It seems to make the page load really slowly. Perhaps just have pictures of the images, with a elemental icon name, and link to archived ideas, sort of like how ideas are presented in the crucible.

That's the images, not the links.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: cia voting stuff https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43432.msg1008486#msg1008486
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2012, 11:13:39 pm »
I stupidly typo'd while my mind wandered. I meant to keep images only for the winners, with just url links for the losers.

 

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