Transition from AI3 to Top50

[Silkenfist]

Hi folks,

I am currently farming the AI3 and would like to plan for the next step - building a deck that is able to compete against Top50. I understand that Firelance and SpeedPoison are pretty much the only viable strategies for beginners without a bunch of rares. Out of these two, I like SpeedPoison more and would prefer switching to that one. Which just leaves my question: Which cards do I need upgraded before playing SpeedPoison becomes viable?

From what I've read so far, I would guess that the Pillars and Freezes might not be strictly required in an upgraded version but everything else pretty much is. Also, that I should get my hands on at least one Arsenic beforehand. Is this true? Please keep in mind that I need to farm coins from the Top50 to upgrade the rest of the deck, so a  ~40% performance would not suffice for me.

[Essence]

You need 12 upgrades to Speed Poison: 6 Physalia and 6 Deadly Poison.  You can play with Bone Walls in the place of the Arsenics without dramatically changing your win percentage.

On a different note, I've had some pretty decent success today (about 66% wins v t50) with a remarkably simple deck:

Mark of Darkness
14 Emerald Pillars
6 Emerald Dragons
6 Heal
4 Steal

None upgraded.  The rainbow decks just can't handle quick dragon spam; there's no targets for their Otys to start growing with, and they damage slowly enough to outpace fairly easily.  Even those of them that manage to keep the dragons under control often die to deckout because, well, you basically have 220 HP to mow through, and you can steal their SoGs and Bonds in a pinch.  You do have to be very careful with your Steals though; basically only use them to nab things that are keeping your Dragons from getting through.

It's cheap, fun, unupgraded, and it's not bad for t50.  I'm sure better things are out there, but you could do much worse.

[dimondghost]

You need 12 upgrades to Speed Poison: 6 Physalia and 6 Deadly Poison.  You can play with Bone Walls in the place of the Arsenics without dramatically changing your win percentage.

On a different note, I've had some pretty decent success today (about 66% wins v t50) with a remarkably simple deck:

Mark of Darkness
14 Emerald Pillars
6 Emerald Dragons
6 Heal
4 Steal

M 
14 E. pillars
6 E. dragons
4 heals
1 bond
5 steals

is a deck I am running with right now. going to try it with -1 bond and +1 heal

[Jack D.]

Well, I've tried 4 decks now with unupgraded cards.  They are all a waste of time except perhaps mono-fire.

mark time - speed graboids, shriekers and earthquakes
unupgraded poison deck
speed green deck - adrenaline, frogs and cockatrices
speed red deck - dragons, fire bolts, lava golems (can do it mark fire or earth for pumping the golems)

My impression after throwing a couple of thousand electrum away is that most of the top 50 decks are much harder than level 5.  My mostly unupgraded rainbow deck has much better success against level 5's.  Unfortunately, I have yet to win a rare or upgraded card after a few hundred level 5's, so I though I'd try top 50 farming.

I've come to the conclusion that the decks that work well for farming T50 seem to all require rare and upgraded cards.  I don't know how you got 6 pulverizers, but I don't have them.  (Note: after several days of playing exclusively late night games I have yet to see a single rare farm deck. Not one.  Ever.  I know that it's up to the people if they want to do it and thanks for those who have done it in the past, but hey ... you all got your cards that way ... )

If I do L3's, I have to win over 750 games to upgrade one card.  Getting 30 upgraded cards therefore requires 15000 games won.  I suppose you don't need 30, but less than 20 is probably a waste of time and electrum.

There are two main problems with playing T50 decks with unupgraded cards, as I see it:

1) Almost all  top 50 decks have 100% towers.  Even if you win the coin toss, they usually have cards on the table before you get a chance to do anything. If you are playing a speed deck versus a speed deck, you lose.  Thanks for playing.  Would you like to visit your deck to see if you would like to improve your chances of winning?  Oh, wait ... you dont' have any upgraded cards ... never mind.

2) Almost all top 50 decks are either speed (see 1 above) or based on denial (steal, destroy permanents, eat/destroy creatures) and putting up short term imprenetrable defenses (sundials, phase shields, bone walls) all strategies that are useful against false gods. They are also useful against the decks I've tried. 

Thanks for the decks listed.  I guess I'll try them out, but at this point, I've bought cards for 6 unupgraded decks to try what someone else has listed as the "ultimate" top50 unupgraded grinding deck (made by people who probably haven't really played a deck with a single upgraded card for months).

Meh.  I guess this was a good game if you got in on the ground floor.  I'm not sure I'm up for winning 25000 level 3 games at this point. 

[Jack D.]

I have to say thank you to Irkalia.

After 3 evenings of playing, I finally saw what a rare farm deck looks like.  I didn't win anything, but I at least I have had the experience of seeing one.   

[Jack D.]

You need 12 upgrades to Speed Poison: 6 Physalia and 6 Deadly Poison.  You can play with Bone Walls in the place of the Arsenics without dramatically changing your win percentage.

On a different note, I've had some pretty decent success today (about 66% wins v t50) with a remarkably simple deck:

Mark of Darkness
14 Emerald Pillars
6 Emerald Dragons
6 Heal
4 Steal

M 
14 E. pillars
6 E. dragons
4 heals
1 bond
5 steals

is a deck I am running with right now. going to try it with -1 bond and +1 heal

Nope.

Not even close to 40%.

[PuppyChow]

If I do L3's, I have to win over 750 games to upgrade one card.  Getting 30 upgraded cards therefore requires 15000 games won.  I suppose you don't need 30, but less than 20 is probably a waste of time and electrum.

Wait wut? AI3 gives AT LEAST 10 coins per, so that would be 7.5k electrum, or AT LEAST 5 upgrades for 750 games. Likely more since you'll usually get 14-17 coins per.

Not saying it's fun or easy, just that it isn't that hard >_<.

[MrBlonde]

If I do L3's, I have to win over 750 games to upgrade one card.  Getting 30 upgraded cards therefore requires 15000 games won.  I suppose you don't need 30, but less than 20 is probably a waste of time and electrum.

If you follow ScaredGirls unupgraded FG farmer you really only need 7 upgraded cards which is manageable. Then you have the enviable task of farming FG's which can be a pain in itself but that's the way to make real money.

There are two main problems with playing T50 decks with unupgraded cards, as I see it:

All valid points. A lot of the T50 decks especially the life ones are really tough to beat even for upgraded decks. Mainly because the life deck limits the AI from making mistakes which it will make with rainbow and earth decks. Although i'm sure an aether deck should be able to handle those life decks if you are so inclined.

Meh.  I guess this was a good game if you got in on the ground floor.  I'm not sure I'm up for winning 25000 level 3 games at this point.

It's really not as hard as you're making it but you will need to grind. We all did a certain amount of grinding and the early pioneers had it a bit easier but there is a lot more information and help around now. Although i guess the unupped T50 help has been more of a detriment. But the info for AI3-5 grinding and FG farming is pretty solid.

Also there aren't a lot of people who make farm decks but there are those who do. I know CB will and whenever i'm in there when i remember and am not playing i'll put up decks (but you can only catch me from Sunday to Tuesday since i'm not a perm T50). Just go to the rare deck thread or ask nicely in chat and people will put up decks. Anyhow try not to get too discouraged.

[Jack D.]

If you follow ScaredGirls unupgraded FG farmer you really only need 7 upgraded cards which is manageable. Then you have the enviable task of farming FG's which can be a pain in itself but that's the way to make real money.

This is true and actually what I have done.  However, in looking to improve my deck, I started looking at other rainbow decks, some of which require 6 or more rare cards (shards in particular is the problem).  So I wanted to find a way to try to get some shards, which can only be gotten by grinding top 50 (or by donating 5$ for a card, but apparently according to the thread I looked at about this the person processing the cards is missing in action so this isn't an option either).  Let's not even talk about the squids that once everyone could buy but now are only available in some people's top50 decks. 

Although i'm sure an aether deck should be able to handle those life decks if you are so inclined.

I haven't seen an aether deck listed in the top50 threads I looked at. Do you have a link or some suggestions?

Anyhow try not to get too discouraged.

Thanks for the kind words, I do appreciate it. I am honestly more frustrated by all the suggestions for unupgraded decks to try that don't really work.  After a string of more than 20 losses in a row followed by a single victory and a bunch more losses, it gets really old really fast. 

More to the original question of this topic though, if someone could just post a reasonable transition from AI3 to top 50, (preferably by someone who has done it under the current top50 and rules set) it would be very helpful.  Advice such as "don't bother unless you get about 10 unupgraded cards and the best way to do that is to grind AI3 until you have the coin" is fine if that's really the accurate picture of the situation. If it is, then what deck and what upgraded cards would be the best place to start?

[MrBlonde]

If you follow ScaredGirls unupgraded FG farmer you really only need 7 upgraded cards which is manageable. Then you have the enviable task of farming FG's which can be a pain in itself but that's the way to make real money.

This is true and actually what I have done.  However, in looking to improve my deck, I started looking at other rainbow decks, some of which require 6 or more rare cards (shards in particular is the problem).  So I wanted to find a way to try to get some shards, which can only be gotten by grinding top 50 (or by donating 5$ for a card, but apparently according to the thread I looked at about this the person processing the cards is missing in action so this isn't an option either).  Let's not even talk about the squids that once everyone could buy but now are only available in some people's top50 decks. 

I had to earn my squids the hard way just like you will, T50 and beating Scorpio(won 3 off of him). But if you like, this Sunday, i will put up a Squid + whatever you want farm (as long as i have it obviously).

I haven't seen an aether deck listed in the top50 threads I looked at. Do you have a link or some suggestions?

Don't quote me on this but a 6 dim shield, 4/6 PU,6 immortal or dragon build should be able to take down most life and earth decks although i certainly could be wrong. Also adding a Lobotomizer or 2 probably wouldn't hurt either since even if they get stolen they don't hurt you.  Life has no control and i'm thinking it should do okay vs Rainbow as well since there is nothing to steal or eat. I would try it out in the trainer first before purchasing cards though ( www.elementsthegame.com/trainer ).


 

[MrBlonde]

I am honestly more frustrated by all the suggestions for unupgraded decks to try that don't really work.  After a string of more than 20 losses in a row followed by a single victory and a bunch more losses, it gets really old really fast. 

When you say you've lost 20 in a row do you mean vs T50's or FG's? Was playing around with the unupped earth deck and it doesn't seem to work too badly. I did try an aether/poison deck but i think the earth is more effective so perhaps it isn't a good idea.

[Jack D.]

I am honestly more frustrated by all the suggestions for unupgraded decks to try that don't really work.  After a string of more than 20 losses in a row followed by a single victory and a bunch more losses, it gets really old really fast. 

When you say you've lost 20 in a row do you mean vs T50's or FG's? Was playing around with the unupped earth deck and it doesn't seem to work too badly. I did try an aether/poison deck but i think the earth is more effective so perhaps it isn't a good idea.

T50 - and I counted.  It was 22 losses in a row versus top 50 before I finally won a game.  (Let's see that cost 330 coins, one fifth of an upgraded card ... nice.) I expect strings of losses againts FG's, but when you buy an unupped deck someone claims works well against top50 and promptly lose 22 games, you start to reconsider your strategy. 

the losses were mostly the rainbow decks with the bonewall(s)+6 sundial+phase shield(s)+fire shield(s)+fireball(s)+elite otyughs that held me off long enough for them to get out the unbeatable creature combos. Then there were all the speed decks I faced. If they have towers and you don't, their speed decks will beat you almost every time.

And no, I'm not an idiot with regards to choices of card play. (I say this before somebody jumps in here like in the other threads and says it must be something you are doing wrong.) To be honest with the speed decks I tried, there's not much card choice in the matter for that to be an issue. I rarely lose against level 5 with my rainbow deck and I get enough FG wins to almost break even so I'd say I know when to play what cards and how to use them. If it weren't for wanting some green shards, I'd just stay in the FG's level 5 areas and take my chances there.