KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

[jmizzle7]

It would also be great if I could adjust the Score and Electrum gain by removing the Farm EM wins.  But for that to happen I would need to know the average score and electrum gained by each EM win Vs a farm deck.  Each farm EM seems to give you electrum between 60 and 75?  and i don't know what it gives you score wise.

I bet its a pain finding out what exactly those values are.   


And different amounts of farm decks even affect TTW averages ... by an unknown amount...  Farm decks don't have CC, don't have heals, and allow you to get better TTW scores.


hmmm....  maybe i will have to keep playing decks until they match in the number of farm decks they encounter...separate sample sizes, but then i won't be able to track and compare score and points.

You could just quit whenever you fight a farm, tally up those losses and electrum/score losses, then at the end of 100 actual games, subtract the farm quits.

[jmdt]

While I'm thinking about it, a T50 EM gives 60 electrum and 50 score.

[SickPillow]

This is a lot of work.  100 games is a lot to play. But 100 games on each side with multiple matchups?  And keeping stats?!?
+1 karma for the effort.

Great work you have done, SickPillow!
+Karma

BTW, +1 karma for all your efforts here.  This is more work than people realize.

Thanks to all of you for the support and the +karma.   
i appreciate it.

[SickPillow]

It would also be great if I could adjust the Score and Electrum gain by removing the Farm EM wins.  But for that to happen I would need to know the average score and electrum gained by each EM win Vs a farm deck.  Each farm EM seems to give you electrum between 60 and 75?  and i don't know what it gives you score wise.

I bet its a pain finding out what exactly those values are.   


And different amounts of farm decks even affect TTW averages ... by an unknown amount...  Farm decks don't have CC, don't have heals, and allow you to get better TTW scores.


hmmm....  maybe i will have to keep playing decks until they match in the number of farm decks they encounter...separate sample sizes, but then i won't be able to track and compare score and points.

You could just quit whenever you fight a farm, tally up those losses and electrum/score losses, then at the end of 100 actual games, subtract the farm quits.

I would totally do this... if i had every card upgraded and lots of electrum to spare 
but i don't hehe.   

the farm wins get me a good amount of electrum, which i need so that i can keep upgrading whichever cards i need for the next deck.

in Match 3 you can see the total electrum i got from doing the match, which is 13,491.   Usually you gain around 6000 before selling cards....  so 7500 comes from sold cards.  That's a lot of electrum to miss, since most of the electrum from sold cards comes from rares.

[SickPillow]

While I'm thinking about it, a T50 EM gives 60 electrum and 50 score.

problem is, as you do the spins (for farm decks), the electrum usually goes up to 65 or 70, maybe 75.  It is almost never 60 Vs a farm deck.

[jmizzle7]

It would also be great if I could adjust the Score and Electrum gain by removing the Farm EM wins.  But for that to happen I would need to know the average score and electrum gained by each EM win Vs a farm deck.  Each farm EM seems to give you electrum between 60 and 75?  and i don't know what it gives you score wise.

I bet its a pain finding out what exactly those values are.   


And different amounts of farm decks even affect TTW averages ... by an unknown amount...  Farm decks don't have CC, don't have heals, and allow you to get better TTW scores.


hmmm....  maybe i will have to keep playing decks until they match in the number of farm decks they encounter...separate sample sizes, but then i won't be able to track and compare score and points.

You could just quit whenever you fight a farm, tally up those losses and electrum/score losses, then at the end of 100 actual games, subtract the farm quits.

I would totally do this... if i had every card upgraded and lots of electrum to spare 
but i don't hehe.   

the farm wins get me a good amount of electrum, which i need so that i can keep upgrading whichever cards i need for the next deck.

in Match 3 you can see the total electrum i got from doing the match, which is 13,491.   Usually you gain around 6000 before selling cards....  That's a lot of electrum to miss, since most of the electrum from sold cards comes from rares.

I sure do know about the benefits of winning from farms...

My point was that if you are testing hundreds of games, it shouldn't be that big a deal to quit against the few farms you plan on running across, because you still stand to gain quite a bit. Of course, rares do sell for a lot.

I suggest you just write down the end result of each farm win on a separate sheet of paper or in a text file on your computer, and at the end, just take the grand total, subtract your initial score/electrum. That will yield your gross score/electrum gain. Then subtract your winnings from farms and you have your net gain from all real decks in the top 50. For stats, just don't take any stats when you come to a farm.

[SickPillow]

Tenth Matchup: (precog Party!)

For this matchup, there is the reigning champion:

Mono-Earth Shrieker Rush
The classic shrieker rush deck!  Fast and simple.  With the bestest, most overpowered creatures ever created by the zanzarinobeano.

Code: [Select]

6rk 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h
Then there is the challenger:

 edxju's Burning Colors
This deck was put up for testing by edxju.  Its a cremation based fire rush deck with 6 procogs and a couple little rainbow critters.

Code: [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 6u1 74e 7ae 7di 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7gl 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7n0 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7tb


Results:

I played 100 games for each side, 200 total.  (actually 232 games if you count farm decks)

Stats!:
 Mono-Earth Shrieker Rush:
Win/Loss= 89/11, 89%
Turns to win (TTW) of 6.663
19 Elemental Masteries
Points gained: 2318
Electrum gained: 3048

 edxju's Burning Colors:
Win/Loss= 71/29, 71%
Turns to win (TTW) of 6.775
16 Elemental Masteries
Points gained: 1611
Electrum gained: 2196

Farm decks have now been completely eliminated from all the data collected.  Due to this, all data including win percentage and TTW should now be slightly worse than in previous matchups.



Shrieker rush was "On Fire" this time around.  An 89% win rate, with 0 farm decks included, is pretty much ridiculous.   I doubt any deck would have stood much of a chance.

Burning Colors did "ok".  A 71% win rate (again with 0 farm decks) is really not bad.   The deck showed a lot of promise early on, it won two of its first 4 matches within 4 turns!  I was quite impressed at the time.  But then it started to show its weaknesses.   Like many fire rush decks, and many precognition decks, it also suffers from "failure to launch" syndrome.  Sometimes it just can't get off the ground, which in turn leads to painfully drawn out losses vs rainbow decks.  Precogs can really muck up an early hand, especially vs darkness decks with devourers.  In one such match, Burning Colors deck did nothing... absolutely Nothing, for 8 turns and then died.  The whole time I had to discard precogs since there was no time quanta to use them. 

Another weakness of Burning Colors is the low hp creatures.  Creature control is a real problem here. 
What makes it worse is that this deck is TINY.  6 precogs essentially make this deck a 24 card deck.  Ouch.  If any deck is able to slightly stall you, to kill some of your weak creatures, you will have gigantic problems... you can't make a comeback victory.. you have no creatures.  You can't pile up creatures in your hand and do burst damage... you have no creatures.  And the creatures you do have, need time on the field to buff themselves.  This deck lost to 12 rainbow control decks.  And lost to mono creature control decks such as antilord's flying eagle eye deck.  And lost to 6 darkness rush decks.  Basically the deck is weak against any decks that messes with your creatures, or messes with your quanta.

All-in-All the Burning Colors deck is not bad, sometimes it can kill stuff extremely fast, but it can't compete with any of the really strong rush decks.

So edxju, in response to the question of whether you should label this deck as "Guaranteed Best Top 50 Deck", well the answer is "no", you probably shouldn't.   

again, winner is Shrieker.
Winner is Mono-Earth Shrieker Rush!

[Korugar]

Hmm...this will be close, as my deck wins almost every game in T50. It was originally the Golem rush in one of the newbie tutorials, but as I upgraded it I modified it due to a couple things I didn't like.

Code: [Select]

5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dk 7dl 7dm 7dm 7dm 7dm 7dm 7do 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7tb

[edxju]

Thanks so much sickpillow (= i really appreciate all your hard work.

[SickPillow]

Eleventh Matchup: (I Quit... again!  ???)

For this matchup, there is the reigning champion:

Mono-Earth Shrieker Rush
The classic shrieker rush deck!  Fast and simple.  With the bestest, most overpowered creatures ever created by the zanzarinobeano.

Code: [Select]

6rk 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h
Then there is the challenger:

nothingfarm's Fractal Chargers
This deck was taken from the "T50 Deck Archive".

Code: [Select]

744 744 744 744 744 744 744 744 744 745 745 745 745 745 745 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80d 80d 80d 80d 80i 80i 80i 80i


Results:

I played 30 games for each side, 60 total.  (actually 71 games if you count farm decks)

Stats!:
 Mono-Earth Shrieker Rush:
Win/Loss= 25/5, 83.3%
Turns to win (TTW) of 6.720
3 Elemental Masteries
Points gained: 576
Electrum gained: 736
 nothingfarm's Fractal Chargers:
Win/Loss= 18/12, 60.0%
Turns to win (TTW) of 11.00
1 Elemental Masteries
Points gained: 203
Electrum gained: 328

All farm decks have been removed from the data.



I told myself that I wasn't going to quit out of any more matches without playing the 200 games!  And here I go, quitting again.  That's right, I'm a quitter.  And this deck isn't even terrible...

Sure, the deck is really slow, and so far it had a win rate of only 60%, but that wasn't really the problem.

I would like the deck if it were changed somewhat, but right now the quanta problems were driving me crazy.  Every game I was thinking "man, this deck would be great if it had more grav towers", or " wow do I have a lot of fractals, and 0 grav quanta".

Even worse was that WolfCZ was running a fractal chargers deck much like this deck... except with better quanta production.  So this deck played against WolfCZ's deck 3 times!  And got crushed 3 times.... and the best part was the computer was even playing that deck badly by playing lots of phase shields.

Basically this deck needs to be reworked.  The deck needs a mix of grav towers and pendulums.  The deck needs to lose 2 fractal cards, and gain more towers.  Maybe even lose a charger and replace with another tower.

I would totally play this deck again if it were changed... as it is, it is too frustrating.

again, winner is Shrieker.
Winner is Mono-Earth Shrieker Rush!

[Korugar]

Even worse was that WolfCZ was running a fractal chargers deck much like this deck... except with better quanta production.  So this deck played against WolfCZ's deck 3 times!  And got crushed 3 times.... and the best part was the computer was even playing that deck badly by playing lots of phase shields.

Yeah, I remember fighting that deck.....it's quite annoying.

Is mine next, then? *hopeful smile*

[SickPillow]

Even worse was that WolfCZ was running a fractal chargers deck much like this deck... except with better quanta production.  So this deck played against WolfCZ's deck 3 times!  And got crushed 3 times.... and the best part was the computer was even playing that deck badly by playing lots of phase shields.

Yeah, I remember fighting that deck.....it's quite annoying.

Is mine next, then? *hopeful smile*

Yup. yours is next..  i'll be starting it today.