How to make the best possible rare farm deck

[Medivh]

Thanks for the guide first!

But how does the mixing of up´d/unup´d cards result in the sloter?
For example: 24 Pillars 3 Lobotomizer /3 Electrocuter vs. 24 Pillars 6 Lobotomizer -> will the sloting machine count the lobo/elec for 2 different cards? will this result in an increased chance for the rare? -> geting 2 diferent lobochances in the slots which mixed also result in a cardwin?

I think that it reads them as the same card, since all the T50's i've dueled and won give the lower version of the card. EX with the shards - SoG gives a green background unupped shard, no matter which they actually have in the deck.

[Medivh]

Marv, they could always throw in 6 different Rares. Wouldn't that work? 6 of each gives a pretty good shot at a rare card, i would believe. Especially if they're all weapons, and ones opposed to your mark so the AI can't play it. Might work, might not. But worth a shot ey?

Code: [Select]

6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 71a 71a 71a 71a 71a 71a 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 7al 7al 7al 7al 7al 7al 7dn 7dn 7dn 7dn 7dn 7dn
for example.

[icecoldbro]

not that wouldnt work cause it decrease the possibilities of getting even one because pillars have a lower chance to appear in the slots and the more cards the less chance of getting one

Marv, they could always throw in 6 different Rares. Wouldn't that work? 6 of each gives a pretty good shot at a rare card, i would believe. Especially if they're all weapons, and ones opposed to your mark so the AI can't play it. Might work, might not. But worth a shot ey?

Code: [Select]

6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 71a 71a 71a 71a 71a 71a 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 7al 7al 7al 7al 7al 7al 7dn 7dn 7dn 7dn 7dn 7dn
for example.

[Medivh]

Thanks for clearing that up, ice. i didnt see anything about 6/6/6/6/6/6, so i threw it up as an idea.

[safko01]

Does anyone know how this is all calculated?  I'm really curious because I can't figure it out.


What about for these new shards of readiness?  I mean if someone in T50 won one would it be best to do a farming deck of 29 land and 1 shard?  What would  give the highest possible chance of winning that one shard.

[lillit]

hi together!

i have 2 questions:

1st: how can i decide which deck is my t50 deck. like i see, at the moment its my fractal/rol/hope deck. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8041.0.html
How can i change the deck, cause i also want to share my rare cards with the community.

2nd: its possible to play against myself (in a t50 match)?

thx for your answer

so long

lillit

[guy_fawkes]

the deck used is the one you had when the game last saved (Saving... Confirmed)

also you can fight against yourself!
i played a mirror match against my rainbow fast deck and i won (my AI is better than a computer!!!)

[safko01]

the deck used is the one you had when the game last saved (Saving... Confirmed)

also you can fight against yourself!
i played a mirror match against my rainbow fast deck and i won (my AI is better than a computer!!!)

You have AI not just ... I??

[kev]

Does anyone know how this is all calculated?  I'm really curious because I can't figure it out.

I tried to do the math but I can't figure it out either.  If someone could post greater detail, it'd be appreciated.  I found the following post:

After MUCH digging around on the flashkit forum, I have found the mysterious secrets of the magical slot machine (http://board.flashkit.com/board/showpost.php?p=4178125&postcount=321) 

Well I will reveal the mystery about the spinning wheel:

The program takes the opponent deck and randomly finds 5 non pillar cards, the 5 non pillars cards are used for the spinning, so the possible combinations are

5^3=125

the winning combinations are

5

If all the 5 cards are different, the chance to win with a single spin is:

5/125 = 4%
(that's why I said 5%, it is actually 4, but there is a small chances that 2 or more of the same card will be used)

However, if a deck is specialized, the chances to have more cards of the same kind in the cards pool are higher, if 2 of the five cards are the same the chance to win is:

((2^3)+2) / 125 = 11/125 = 8.8%

etc... so, putting it in a table:

5 different cards = 4% winning chance
4 different cards = 8.8% winning chance
3 different cards = 23.2% winning chance
2 different cards = 52% winning chance
all cards are the same = 100%

That means that from a deck with only one kind of non-pillar card you'll win for sure, BUT....

In the new version I added something else: the program has only 50 chances to find all the 5 non-pillar cards, if it is not successfull at doing that it will start drawing pillars as well. This way, playing against a pillar only deck will give you 3 pillars. Statistic for almost all pillar decks gets quite complicated.

Actual step by step walkthrough:

1. Pick a random card in your opponent's deck
2. If it's a pillar, go back to 1
3. Security mechanism (for builds that are composed of pillars only) : if, after 10 random picks, you still get a pillar then keep it
4. Store card in variable card1.
5. Repeat steps 1 to 4, until you have filled 4 variables
6. Now the spinning starts for 3 rounds but you only pick cards in [card1, card2, card3, card4]. This ways, the chances to pick 3 times the same one are much higher.

EDITED by Mr. Jellyfish:

I wish I had seen this before... I wouldn't have explained everything again here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,712.msg7409#msg7409).

A few comments though:

* The first part of the algorithm creates what I call a "shortlist" of 5 cards, but only the first 4 are actually used afterwards (and that's what really counts). So the chances to get something are higher than what Zanzarino says. I don't know if it's bug or not, but that's how it works.

* The mechanism to prevent infinite loops described at the end of the post, doesn't stop searching for non-pillar cards after 50 failed attempts but after 10. That makes the risks to get a pillar from the spinning wheel much higher for builds that have about 50% pillars (or more). Also, only elemental pillars, elemental towers and quantum pillars are excluded. For some reasons, quantum towers are considered valid.

* There are also 2 undescribed mechanisms:
- one that converts every card into its non-upgraded version if you're not fighting against a fake god. This mechanism takes place after the exclusion of pillars, so quantum towers might be chosen in first place and then converted into quantum pillars (that's common in PvP)
- and another that has a 10% chance to replace the first card of the shortlist by a shard, if you're fighting against a fake god. The shard inserted here is always the one that upgrades into Shard of Divinity.

The combined with the original post in this thread seemed like a good starting point.  So I started with a 24/6 deck cuz the math should be the simplest.

With 10 chances per variable of finding the rare, there should be a (24/30)^10 = 10.7% chance of a pillar and a 89.3% chance of finding a rare.

The fact that there are four variables rather than three or five is irrelevant, I think.  There's a 89.3%^3 = 71.1% chance of winning a rare per spin.  Chriskang says 33.8% so obviously my math is wrong.  Little help, anyone?

[kev]

Here are the stats (chances to get something out of the deck after 1 spin):
___________________________________________________

With a (18 pillars / 6 rare1 / 6 rare2) deck

Nothing	61.8%
Pillar	1.6%
Rare1	18.3%
Rare2	18.3%

___________________________________________________

I got to wondering how valuable a relic farm is, so I did some math.  For those who don't know, relics are won in place of marks and nymphs, so a top-50 deck could theoretically be composed entirely of cards that would show up as relics in the slots.

The following assumes players sell whatever they spin.  Obviously some players value some rares more than the sale price indicates.

An average rare weapon is 145-150 electrum, so given the percentages above, an average spin is worth about 54 electrum.

For a player to win more than that from a relic farm, he'd have to have over an 83% chance of winning a relic per spin.  Hopefully after I get an answer to my last post I can solve for how many relics would have to be in a 30-card deck to get an 83% chance of spinning a relic.

[Kumlekar]

I'm curious about nymphs, do they all count against the same 6 card limit or against separate ones?  If its seperate, a deck of 24 nymphs ( 4 types) and 6 relics  or 30 nymphs (5 types) would be a very good money farm.  (60 for master + 3 relics which sell for 65 each = 255 gold assured, which is equivalent to a FG with a 100% win rate - upgraded cards)

[smuglapse]

I'm curious about nymphs, do they all count against the same 6 card limit or against separate ones?  If its seperate, a deck of 24 nymphs ( 4 types) and 6 relics  or 30 nymphs (5 types) would be a very good money farm.  (60 for master + 3 relics which sell for 65 each = 255 gold assured, which is equivalent to a FG with a 100% win rate - upgraded cards)

I tested in the trainer and they all act as separate cards.  So, that deck would be possible.

But don't hold your breath waiting for someone to get 24 nymphs in the top50.   

I take that back.  According to this poll (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5189.0/viewresults/poll,118.html), 2 people have 30+ nymphs and 1 has 18-19.