Void Pillar | Void Tower

[Flayne]

And yet people neglect to mention this is supposed to be played in correlation to other Void cards, which give quanta to the opponent. Sure, it can be used without the others, but let's face it, not using the Void cards, when using a Void pillar, is somewhat questionable in strategic set-ups. Why get pillars of something, and end up without the quanta to do anything else?

Actually Void Pillar is viable without other Void cards and that unintentional usage us what is probably OP. I am mostly playing devil's advocate with QuantumT because he has a really good point about how powerful of a stall card Void Pillar is.

There is a reason Bloodshadow made it only drain quanta of the opponent's mark. The question is: Was that nerf enough or does void pillar need to cost 1 stock quanta?

Id say one stock quanta, otherwise it is a little too easy.

[Nepycros]

But if you're packing Void Pillars, then that's a bit hard for you to get the quanta to use any other cards.

[OldTrees]

But if you're packing Void Pillars, then that's a bit hard for you to get the quanta to use any other cards.

A lockdown stall does not need other cards. (plus 1 quanta per turn from the mark)

[Bloodshadow]

I believe that Void Pillar does not need to cost 1 , for both flavor and balance reasons. Flavor-wise, no other pillars cost anything. Balance-wise, no one in his or her right mind would use Void Pillar as the sole win condition of his/her deck, since most decks in the PvP environment are either splashed, duo, trio, or rainbow.

[QuantumT]

I believe that Void Pillar does not need to cost 1 , for both flavor and balance reasons. Flavor-wise, no other pillars cost anything. Balance-wise, no one in his or her right mind would use Void Pillar as the sole win condition of his/her deck, since most decks in the PvP environment are either splashed, duo, trio, or rainbow.

Then why on earth would we introduce a card that hurts monos the most, if they're not even the most competitive right now?

Also, if I run a deck with half void pillars, I still stifle duos pretty effectively as well, because half the cards in their deck are now unusable.

To give people something to think about, just think about some of the games where somebody has dropped 2-3 devs/pests on turn 1/2, and how stifling it was. Now imagine that draws like that are now virtually guaranteed.

[Bloodshadow]

Then why on earth would we introduce a card that hurts monos the most, if they're not even the most competitive right now?

Um, duh? This card is meant to suck away the excess quanta given to your opponent by other Void cards. It's the reason the card is named Void Pillar.

Also, if I run a deck with half void pillars, I still stifle duos pretty effectively as well, because half the cards in their deck are now unusable.

Yes, yes. "Pretty effectively". I don't think it's OP if it's only reasonably effective.

To give people something to think about, just think about some of the games where somebody has dropped 2-3 devs/pests on turn 1/2, and how stifling it was. Now imagine that draws like that are now virtually guaranteed.

Pests suck quanta of all elements. This only works on quanta of your opponent's Mark. It won't be nearly as stifling.

[QuantumT]

Also, if I run a deck with half void pillars, I still stifle duos pretty effectively as well, because half the cards in their deck are now unusable.

Yes, yes. "Pretty effectively". I don't think it's OP if it's only reasonably effective.

That's in addition to completely and totally ruining monos. Heck, it will even give SN decks a hard time.

To give people something to think about, just think about some of the games where somebody has dropped 2-3 devs/pests on turn 1/2, and how stifling it was. Now imagine that draws like that are now virtually guaranteed.

Pests suck quanta of all elements. This only works on quanta of your opponent's Mark. It won't be nearly as stifling.

To a mono they're one and the same.

Basically, this card would force monos to use a useless off mark, because even the threat of facing it would be enough with how badly it rips them apart. This would make mono decks even worse than they already are.

Basically, you add this card and monos disappear.

[OldTrees]

It stands to reason that only a pure or mostly pure Void Pillar deck as a viable and frequent deck would be able to punish monos to the degree of eliminating them from the metagame.

So the question is "Can a mostly pure Void Pillar deck withstand the current metagame ignoring mono decks?"


So would someone please playtest a mostly pure void tower deck against a couple of non mono decks. Change the void tower quantity until a 50% win/lost ratio against competitive decks is achieved then post that deck here so it can then be tested against a mono rush like USEM.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Just an additional thought - Let's compare Void Pillar to Pest.

Void Pillar
- Continously destroys quantum of the mark.
- Effective against monos - if you use an off mark you only slow it down so much.
- Is vulnerable to EQ.
Pest
-Quickly makes up for quantum paid.
-Can be played multiple times very easily with Fractal and Mitosis.
-Often gets rid of the weakness of AoE CC by draining quantum quickly enough.
-Can be buffed.
-Gives you quantum back.

How is this card superior to Pest? Although limited in number Pests can be played repeatedly with Mitosis and Fractal and often drain so much quantum that Void Pillars will be unable to outdestroy that quantum unless they take up a significant part of the deck.

[Seiya]

It isn't superior to Pest.  It's just different.  This card is free and meant to be used to negate the excess quanta that the Void cards give.  It can (probably wouldn't) be splashed into other types of decks. 

Pest costs darkness quanta and is meant to be used in a different type of deck.

[ZephyrPhantom]

It isn't superior to Pest.  It's just different.  This card is free and meant to be used to negate the excess quanta that the Void cards give.  It can (probably wouldn't) be splashed into other types of decks. 

Pest costs darkness quanta and is meant to be used in a different type of deck.

According to QuantumT implementing this causes the extinction of mono decks.

To a mono they're one and the same.

Basically, this card would force monos to use a useless off mark, because even the threat of facing it would be enough with how badly it rips them apart. This would make mono decks even worse than they already are.

Basically, you add this card and monos disappear.

What I am trying to say is that this card doesn't seem to be OP and if it would cause such a huge metagame effect change it would probably need to be superior to Pest IMHO.

[Seiya]

To QuantumT's point, Mono decks are already at or near the end of the road.  With the advent of pendulums, duos became much more useful and in most cases worthwhile.  They also made rainbows more effective.  With the exception of Life, mono decks do not appear to be advantageous now.