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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Undying Ghast | Undying Ghast https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48718.msg1063379#msg1063379
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2013, 01:01:07 pm »
I believe this is harder to remove than Immortal.
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Offline Zaealix

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Re: Undying Ghast | Undying Ghast https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48718.msg1063393#msg1063393
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2013, 02:01:22 pm »
Basically, it's absorbing quanta to preserve itself... I think the right way to view it is MTG's regeneration thing, you pay quanta, and the creature heals itself so it doesn't die.
that said, this creature can be a 'weakpoint' of sorts, in that killing it repeatedly enables you to drain the opponent's quanta.
An interesting fact, is that as it is, that low HP makes the drain a nice little price, so this thing's pretty hard to kill, but if you cast Blessing (or plate armor) on it then pulled something like freeze+shockwave, you'd take more quanta off per death. At the same time, it's more HP sooo...
It's a well crafted mechanic. Trying to use one end for your own gain seems to result in the other getting in your way. The low HP makes the low regeneration cost easy to pay, while the regeneration cost isn't going to do much other than slow the opponent down unless you blow lots of CC on killing him.
The creature IS tough to kill, but then again, mummy is a more powerful attacker, and this thing eats your quanta to stay alive, so rushing with it might be a risky endeavor...
It's probably going to overshadow Mummy as time goes on due to CC slowly becoming more prevelant and usable, but mummy will work better if you can find a way to defend it from the various forms of CC out there.
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Undying Ghast | Undying Ghast https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48718.msg1063445#msg1063445
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2013, 06:27:24 pm »
I love this mechanic idea. Very nice port of the MtG equivalent.

The art totally rocks as well
I believe this is harder to remove than Immortal.
True,  this will be one tough undead cookie... but unlike immortal, you could use that against it... viz a vi, Antimatter

Then the player is stuck with a creature healing the opponent that they can't even kill or sacrifice to stop.

It will make QC strategies more valuable I think.

Given the difficulty in killing this creature, I do think it should have a stat efficiency that is a little lower.

Actually, it would be funny to leave it with a single hit point :)

My only other issue is that its stats and cost are a little too close to that of Mummy.

I say, give it a much higher cost and slightly higher attack. Something that never dies seems like a card that shouldn't be seen till mid to late game.
Given :death 's capacity for high late game quanta generation (via soul catcher) I think it will make a perfect quanta sink.
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Re: Undying Ghast | Undying Ghast https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48718.msg1063546#msg1063546
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2013, 01:09:28 am »
Is the ability passive?

Can it be used as Oty-chow?

Does immo work with it?
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Offline Zaealix

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Re: Undying Ghast | Undying Ghast https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48718.msg1063667#msg1063667
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2013, 10:55:51 am »
Man, the idea that this thing eats quanta to not die is a hard one for people to grasp.
But then again,  :death's not really big on keeping things alive so far. That this thing does is new ground for it.
@Drake-maybe you should add a section in the notes about it not dying, since this could be a common complaint.
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Undying Ghast | Undying Ghast https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48718.msg1063936#msg1063936
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2013, 12:55:16 am »
Man, the idea that this thing eats quanta to not die is a hard one for people to grasp.
But then again,  :death's not really big on keeping things alive so far. That this thing does is new ground for it.
@Drake-maybe you should add a section in the notes about it not dying, since this could be a common complaint.
Its not so much the "not-dying" thats hard to grasp (pheonix does that already), its the means by which this is accomplished that is new.

Attaching the cost to its HP is also an interesting and novel concept in EtG.

The tricky thing there is that there are not a lot of similar effects to compare it with in terms of balancing.

For instance, pheonix is a completely new card when it returns, it doesn't keep any stat buffs, etc. This card does.

The fact that the survival cost is equal to max hp (i'm assuming the notes meant max hp since current would be weird to do) will help with  balance a lot though, since buffing its HP may actually lower its survival rate.

Given the potential double edge sword effect I think the mechanic is roughly on par with the untargetable mechanic, or maybe somewhere between that and phoenix.

Since, the :death element seems to feature stat efficiencies similar to :aether I think aether's Immortal card makes for a good comparison / basis here.

So from cost theory: cost ~ (attack - element attack bonus) + (hp - element hp bonus)/2 + skill value

Just as a guess, I would rate :death and :aether attack bonus at about +1 :underworld and no hp bonus (they both favor high attack creatures, but not as strongly as does :fire )

so for Immortal:
6 = (4 - 1) + (3 - 0)/2 + s = 3+1.5+s = 4.5+s -> skill value ~ 1.5 :underworld

For this creature:
4 = (4-1) + (2 - 0)/2 +s=3+1+s=4+s -> s = 0 :underworld ...

The average skill has a value of about 1 :underworld

The untargetable skill is valued a bit higher than that (as is evident from comparing phase spider and immortal)

So this creature's undying ability is probably being underrated I think.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:57:06 am by OdinVanguard »
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Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Re: Undying Ghast | Undying Ghast https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48718.msg1068780#msg1068780
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2013, 08:47:47 am »
But then again,  :death's not really big on keeping things alive so far. That this thing does is new ground for it.

My thought was that it would be harder to kill something that was already dead.

Updated the NOTES

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Undying Ghast | Undying Ghast https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48718.msg1068888#msg1068888
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2013, 04:51:01 pm »
All things considered I really like this card.
I think cost could come down slightly, since I believe the ability is quite potent, but other than that its pretty sweet.

Love the art by the way.
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
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You might be a unix junky

 

blarg: