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Elements the Game => Level 2 - Forge => Card Ideas and Art => Forge Archive => Topic started by: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 12:59:29 am

Title: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 12:59:29 am
(http://i.imgur.com/EJeKTKs.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/2Ejpx0L.png)
NAME:
Time Bomb
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
1 :time
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0 | 3
TEXT:
:time : Tick
Takes 1 damage. If this kills Time Bomb, deals 9 damage to the opponent.
NAME:
Time Terror
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
1 :time
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
1 | 6
TEXT:
:time :time: Tick
Takes 2 damage. If this kills Time Terror, deals 4 damage to every enemy creature.

ART:
KrackoCloud
IDEA:
KrackoCloud
NOTES:
Time Bombs won't detonate if anything besides Tick kills them.

Time Bomb is essentially 4 quanta (initial cost + Ticks) for 2 Lightnings. The drawback is that it takes time and can easily be disrupted, but this is made up for by its card synergy.
Time Terror has extra health, making it harder to deal with quickly.

Time Bombs also work as good scapegoats - cheap to play but a potential threat that many players won't want to ignore, even if you do nothing with them.
SERIES:

Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 01:03:31 am
Hm, interesting concept and rather clean art.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on February 05, 2013, 01:05:46 am
That's awesome. Definitely keeping track of this.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 01:26:54 am
I don't understand the thematics of why Terror only targets your opponent's.  Seeing as it is a blast effect, why is your side unaffected?
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 05, 2013, 01:38:13 am
I feel like it would be better that all but :time creatures were effected :P
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: CuCN on February 05, 2013, 01:40:37 am
What type of damage is dealt to the opponent by the unupped one?
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 01:45:34 am
Quote from: CuCN on February 05, 2013, 01:40:37 am
What type of damage is dealt to the opponent by the unupped one?

Basing off of UG, it would be safe to assume it is Spell damage?
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 02:07:53 am
Quote from: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 01:26:54 am
I don't understand the thematics of why Terror only targets your opponent's.  Seeing as it is a blast effect, why is your side unaffected?
B-because... Because it, it walks up to the enemy's side of the field? <:U
Really, I can't give a super-legitimate reason besides "that would make things really crazy." Bomb works like a Lightning, so Terror's just kind of Thunderstorm.

Quote from: TribalTrouble on February 05, 2013, 01:38:13 am
I feel like it would be better that all but :time creatures were effected :P
Even Scarabs get hurt by explosions :U

Quote from: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 01:45:34 am
Quote from: CuCN on February 05, 2013, 01:40:37 am
What type of damage is dealt to the opponent by the unupped one?

Basing off of UG, it would be safe to assume it is Spell damage?
I was hesitant about this problem. For now we can assume it's spell damage since it seems to directly attack the opponent, but tbh I wouldn't mind if the opponent could block it either. If anyone has thoughts on this, go for it.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 05, 2013, 02:16:39 am
Ahh but isn't it a Time Terror? So :time creatures control Time so they would be unaffected ^^
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 02:20:48 am
Quote from: TribalTrouble on February 05, 2013, 02:16:39 am
Ahh but isn't it a Time Terror? So :time creatures control Time so they would be unaffected ^^
Well, now that's just getting into semantics :V Besides, if they controlled time against Terror, if they controlled that one explosion, it wouldn't explode on anybody!
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 05, 2013, 02:23:33 am
Quote from: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 02:20:48 am
Quote from: TribalTrouble on February 05, 2013, 02:16:39 am
Ahh but isn't it a Time Terror? So :time creatures control Time so they would be unaffected ^^
Well, now that's just getting into semantics :V Besides, if they controlled time against Terror, if they controlled that one explosion, it wouldn't explode on anybody!
Oh but wouldn't it?  8)
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Chapuz on February 05, 2013, 02:24:26 am
Mitosis would... ugh. The ultimate Fractal target
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 02:32:26 am
Quote from: Chapuz on February 05, 2013, 02:24:26 am
Mitosis would... ugh. The ultimate Fractal target

But then TSTROM
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Captain Scibra on February 05, 2013, 02:40:07 am
Fractal this, wait.  Dessication, then BOOM!!!!  3 card OTK.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 02:42:36 am
Quote from: Captain Scibra on February 05, 2013, 02:40:07 am
Fractal this, wait.  Dessication, then BOOM!!!!  3 card OTK.
Nope, must be killed by its ability.

And you mean Dry Spell.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Aves on February 05, 2013, 02:52:36 am
Looks nice, I think this sounds like a fun card, if a bit UP? Not sure on that.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 03:49:43 am
Having a hard time determining if it's UP or OP, tbh.
Against Aether it'll probably do a really bad job. Otherwise, it seems like a decent card. Maybe slightly reminiscent of GotP?
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 04:24:30 am
Just to compare...


Time Bomb v Unstable Gas

Unstable Gas
Playing Cost [6 :underworld] + Ignite (Duo Cost) [2 :underworld] + 1 Card + 1 Turn  for 20 damage

Time Bomb
Playing Cost [1 :underworld] + Tick (Mono Cost) (x3) [3 :underworld] + 1 Card + 3 Turn for 10 damage

I'm disregarding UG's mass AoE in cost since it also affects both players' side, although without it, it'd probably cost more.


Time Terror v Lightning Storm v Firestorm

Time Terror
Playing Cost [2 :underworld] + Tick (Mono Cost) (x3) [3 :underworld] + 1 Card Cost + 3 Turn Cost for 4 AoE

Lightning Storm
Playing Cost (x2) [4 :underworld] + 2 Card Cost for 4 AoE

Firestorm
Playing Cost [5 :underworld] + 1 Card Cost for 3 AoE


Verdict:
Unupgraded is slightly OP in the face of UG, especially since it can targeted by Fractal or Mitosis, which is something of note with SoR.

Upgraded is definitely UP in the face of straightforward AoE CC.  Could probably be compared closer to Improved Plague...

Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 05:22:48 am
Thanks for putting the time and thought into that. Here's a rough idea of what I could do.

Time Bomb:
-Lower explosion power. This is probably the easiest way to go. I'll probably nerf it to 9, but more nerfing is plausible. How low can it get before Lightning overtakes it though?
-Increase quanta cost by 1?

Terror:
-Increase explosion power. However, it's tough to balance this because any AoE above 5 is probably too strong for its own good.
-Increase attack. Probably redundant since this card is meant to be destroyed.
-Changed explosion into the same type as Bomb, just stronger. Ultimately I may have no choice. Maybe make it deal 12 damage to opponent? This is easy and straightforward, but it kind of loses its flair.

The original idea, actually, was for both versions to damage both the opponent and his/her creatures. But there wasn't enough room on the card :U
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Rutarete on February 05, 2013, 05:31:13 am
... I don't find your comparisons very apt drake. I don't like your comparisons. They make sense in theory to me, but the simple fact that it has to be killed by its own ability and that using it makes it more and more prone to CC just makes it too UP.

Cool idea though :)
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 05:39:45 am
Quote from: Rutarete on February 05, 2013, 05:31:13 am
... I don't find your comparisons very apt drake. I don't like your comparisons. They make sense in theory to me, but the simple fact that it has to be killed by its own ability and that using it makes it more and more prone to CC just makes it too UP.

Cool idea though :)

Well, Bomb isn't so much OP as it is overshadowing Unstable Gas, which is struggling on its own.

However, I feel that its CC weakness can actually be ignored to an extent considering how easy it would be to get a huge number out.

My thoughts on balancing?

Give Time Bomb +1 | +1 while reducing ability damage to 8

Drop Time Terror's cost to 1 :time
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 06:18:41 am
Quote from: Rutarete on February 05, 2013, 05:31:13 am
... I don't find your comparisons very apt drake. I don't like your comparisons. They make sense in theory to me, but the simple fact that it has to be killed by its own ability and that using it makes it more and more prone to CC just makes it too UP.

Cool idea though :)
Thanks.

When you think about it, Time Bomb works a lot like a spell, so it's really not that bad having it kill itself - not too different from how spells are one-use.

Quote from: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 05:39:45 am
My thoughts on balancing?

Give Time Bomb +1 | +1 while reducing ability damage to 8

Drop Time Terror's cost to 1 :time
Will do for Time Terror. Making its explosion's like Bomb's is still viable though, so if anyone has any thoughts about this, shoot.

As for Bomb, so the countdown becomes 4? That makes it 5 quanta for 12 damage. Still pretty standard output, but this might make it a little too easy for opponents to circumvent. Even if you didn't opt to get rid of it via CC, 4 turns is pretty a pretty long time to wait for detonation.
I guess the real question is if I want to make Bomb and Terror more like actual creatures, and have their abilities take the backseat. If so then the change works relatively well. Otherwise, I'd likely keep Bomb as is.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 06:43:09 am
Well, then just +1|0 for Bomb and drop the damage to 8?  In its current state, it is a prime candidate for Fractal and Mitosis and with numbers, CC is not really an issue outside of AoE.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Hyroen on February 05, 2013, 07:34:03 am
This card brings me back a bit to the old days.

Looks similar to the Exploding Pot | Exploding Cauldron (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6271.0.html), right?

Remember that one guys? Quite a trip through :time.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 07:36:39 am
Mm... SG Archive Idea...  Makes me feel young.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 06:35:52 pm
Does the fact that Bomb's a creature make this viably different, or should I make extra changes?
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Hyroen on February 05, 2013, 06:59:19 pm
No changes are required I believe. Just wanted to bring back that relic for nostalgic purposes.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 07:03:32 pm
Especially since said idea was archived in 2010.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Vesst on February 05, 2013, 07:24:25 pm
I, personally like the cards.
I think they even bit underpowered - 3 turns clock and might be destroyed are huge drawbacks.
, maybe you may want 2 turn clock.

Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 05, 2013, 07:55:00 pm
@OP some interesting stuff said on this page here. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6271.36.html

other than that, good luck! I think this is a great card :)
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 05, 2013, 09:10:46 pm
Quote from: Vesst on February 05, 2013, 07:24:25 pm
I, personally like the cards.
I think they even bit underpowered - 3 turns clock and might be destroyed are huge drawbacks.
, maybe you may want 2 turn clock.



However, the idea is that the effect would outweigh the costs.  The turns [should] have been taken into account when balancing.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: krackocloud on February 05, 2013, 09:42:47 pm
Well, like the notes on the OP says, this is supposed to be the card's weakness, made up for by its card synergy and ability to distract opponents.

EDIT:
Changes - In the end, I decided to mostly keep Bomb the way it is. Bomb deals 1 less damage and Terror has 1 less cost.
I'll probably be sending this to the Crucible soon.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on March 02, 2013, 04:26:57 pm
Anyways, congratulations on being chosen for the "March 2013 Card Idea of the Month".
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Eddygp on November 03, 2013, 07:44:25 pm
This+SoR = OP
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: Drake_XIV on November 03, 2013, 09:25:39 pm
Considering card costs, it isn't.
Title: Re: Time Bomb | Time Terror
Post by: timetock on November 03, 2013, 11:11:32 pm
combo with adren, PU? still seems underwhelming.

fractal!!
blarg: