Throwing Knife | Throwing Knife

[OldTrees]

5 damage.

@OldTrees: A 5 'vanilla' 4-attacker is, I believe, virtually useless, regardless of it being a permanent. Especially upgraded. I think upgraded Throwing Knife is comparable to Minor Phoenix (which is easier to Fractal and requires two cards to get rid of).

How about 2 |1 + 1 card for 2|3 attack?

[RRQJ]

how about "deal 3+X damage. X is the number of knives stacked?" (make appropriate base damage, I chose 3 without any consideration).  I think that would alleviate the fractal concern.

Actually, what exactly is the concern? The discussion seems to be going many ways.

[russianspy1234]

i made a stackable weapon card a little while back, it proved not to be very popular:

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30981.0.html

[Jenkar]

I still strongly dislike this card due to its power. Not really surprised it is sailing through polls though.

[moomoose]

yep, balance isnt popular in the polls, the masses want power.

[Jenkar]

yep, balance isnt popular in the polls, the masses want power.

For once, i agree with you.

[moomoose]

making things worse is the polls only showing the basic card and not the upgraded, and the basic card is supposed to be more restricted.  so an appropriately balanced basic card alone will look even less tantalizing than an overpowered card in the polls.

[Xenocidius]

Honestly, I don't think it's all that powerful. Unupped is weaker than Poison in most situations, and upped is weaker than Minor Phoenix in most. What makes you think it's too powerful?

[Jenkar]

Agreed on unupped, not upped. Permanents are much more resistant to pc than a phoenix to cc.

[bogtro]

n knives (unupped) do 2n^2 damage/turn, costs 1 quanta. Poison does 2 damage/turn, costs 1 quanta. Poison has a damage/cost ratio of 2, knife has a damage to cost ratio of 2n. Knife is clearly more powerful.
n knives (upped) do 4n^2 damage, costs 2 quanta. Minor Phoenix does 4 damage/turn, costs 2 quanta. Knife has a damage/cost ratio of 2n vs. MP's damage/cost ratio of 2. Knife is strictly better considering availability of PC vs. CC.

Throwing knife is shockingly powerful. For 9 +2n , you do 4n^2 damage. This only requires 5 knifes for 100 damage, leading to an easy OTK with fractal.

I must be misinterpreting the card. Do you mean it does 2n damage for n throwing knives?

EDIT: Thanks OldTrees, forgot to remove the ^2.

[OldTrees]

n knives (unupped) do 2n^2 damage/turn, costs 1 quanta. Poison does 2 damage/turn, costs 1 quanta. Poison has a damage/cost ratio of 2, knife has a damage to cost ratio of 2n^2. Knife is clearly more powerful.
n knives (upped) do 4n^2 damage, costs 2 quanta. Minor Phoenix does 4 damage/turn, costs 2 quanta. Knife is strictly better considering availability of PC vs. CC.

The comparison was N knives vs N Poisons or N Minor Phoenixes.

[Arum]

Here, THINK about it.
First, you'll need Animate weapon. Okay, not bad.
Before that. you need 2 air.
Then you'll need 9 .
Then, for the next fractal, you'll need 9 more aether quanta, since all is drained.
Even then, the animated weapon can die from CC. If that happens, go back to the beginning.
As soon as you fractal, you'll need 2^8 to pay for all the knives. Not too bad, can be saved up.
Now you have 8^4 + 4 damage per turn. 36 damage. Okay.
Let's say the opponent has a shield, or unluckily a haxx one, then your damage is negated by a bit. We'll use permafrost shield as an example. Okay, so thats now 3^8, + 4. 28 damage.
Also, lets not forget the one of the field. It can be killed, at ANY time, by CC.


So yeah, this is definably powerful, and Fractal puts nearly every card into overpoweredness. Remember what Higurashi or Vrt(?) said about balance: "Balanced cards should be all around and even. Negative feedback should not be "OP! THIS PLUS FRACTAL = OTK!"" or something along those lines.

As for Xeno, raising the cost by 1 for both would do the trick. Compare it to frogs.