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Elements the Game => Level 2 - Forge => Card Ideas and Art => Forge Archive => Topic started by: Kael Hate on April 20, 2010, 09:32:17 am

Title: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on April 20, 2010, 09:32:17 am

Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
(Quantum Mechanics)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/Kael_Hate/Elements/Spectral_Reflector2.png)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/Kael_Hate/Elements/Spectral_Prism.png)
NAME: Spectral Reflector
ELEMENT: Light
COST: 2 :light
TYPE: Permanent (Artifact)
ATK|HP: -
ABILITY: For each Non-Darkness
Elemental card in hand Spectral
Reflector turns :light into a Quanta
of that cards type.
NAME: Spectral Prism
ELEMENT: Light
COST: 1 :light
TYPE: Permanent (Artifact)
ATK|HP: -
ABILITY: For each Non-Darkness
Elemental card in hand Spectral
Prism turns :light into a Quanta
of that cards type.
ART:
Kael Hate
IDEA:
Kael Hate
NOTES:
- Clusters
- This works during the end sequence by triggering an effect for each card in hand. For each trigger the game attempts to consume a  quanta. If it successfully does so then it generates a :light quanta matching the card element. If the card is Darkness or an Other type then nothing is generated.
SERIES:
QUANTUM MECHANICS - A Series of Card Ideas for Quanta Production  (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5981.msg67663#msg67663)
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 05, 2010, 05:08:25 pm
Updated with Image and New Template form.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Guitarmankev1 on May 05, 2010, 05:38:33 pm
Hmmmmmm...

So basically, this card will replace what is now the rainbow deck?

I envision seeing a few of these in play, along with a mark of light and a few light pillars, and then just generating the exact quanta that you need, although somewhat slowly...

Hm, for every point I can think of that seems to make this card very powerful, there is a counterpoint to it. Very nice... Not sure what I would suggest differently. If this does make it, it will become a VERY influential card.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 05, 2010, 06:06:01 pm
Hmmmmmm...

So basically, this card will replace what is now the rainbow deck?

I envision seeing a few of these in play, along with a mark of light and a few light pillars, and then just generating the exact quanta that you need, although somewhat slowly...

Hm, for every point I can think of that seems to make this card very powerful, there is a counterpoint to it. Very nice... Not sure what I would suggest differently. If this does make it, it will become a VERY influential card.
It can't work as a rainbow does today because it does not directly give you quanta for the activators of cards. Some creative balance would allow you to get around that tho.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Lordpants on May 05, 2010, 08:01:12 pm
I don't think I am quite sure how this works, it makes a quanta for each card in your hand thats not a dark elemental, but does it give you 1 for each cards element?
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Guitarmankev1 on May 05, 2010, 09:44:54 pm
It can't work as a rainbow does today because it does not directly give you quanta for the activators of cards.
Ok, now I'm confused.  ???

I thought, for example, if you had 3 life cards and 2 air cards in your hand, that at the end of your turn, this card would generate 3 life quanta and 2 air quanta.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 05, 2010, 10:23:43 pm
It can't work as a rainbow does today because it does not directly give you quanta for the activators of cards.
Ok, now I'm confused.  ???

I thought, for example, if you had 3 life cards and 2 air cards in your hand, that at the end of your turn, this card would generate 3 life quanta and 2 air quanta.

You Have 10 Light Pillars and 1 Spectral Prism in play, 10 :light in the stockpile, 3 Forest Spectre (life) and 2 Firefly Queen (Air) in Hand,

The Mirror takes 5 :light and gives you 3 :life , 2 :air

But this gives you no :water to pay for the forest spectres growth ability.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 05, 2010, 10:35:18 pm
Lol why are these always so complex? :) My brain hurts after reading that description.

I like cards like Nova that are simple.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: killsdazombies on May 05, 2010, 10:48:23 pm
yea, i always read these and im like "ow....." i wish these were less complicated.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 05, 2010, 10:50:06 pm
Lol why are these always so complex? :) My brain hurts after reading that description.

I like cards like Nova that are simple.
lol, my thoughts cycle between, Tactical Action, Calculations and Revelations. This is as simple to me as nova.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Guitarmankev1 on May 05, 2010, 10:54:10 pm
It can't work as a rainbow does today because it does not directly give you quanta for the activators of cards.
Ok, now I'm confused.  ???

I thought, for example, if you had 3 life cards and 2 air cards in your hand, that at the end of your turn, this card would generate 3 life quanta and 2 air quanta.

You Have 10 Light Pillars and 1 Spectral Prism in play, 10 :light in the stockpile, 3 Forest Spectre (life) and 2 Firefly Queen (Air) in Hand,

The Mirror takes 5 :light and gives you 3 :life , 2 :air

But this gives you no :water to pay for the forest spectres growth ability.

Ahh I understand. I like it a lot.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Wisemage on May 06, 2010, 12:15:05 am
Actually, this is kaels first card i understood as soon as i read it.

I think its balanced since it will only give you quanta for that element if the card is in your hand.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Boingo on May 06, 2010, 03:16:05 am
A card specifically designed against both mono decks and :darkness cards.  How odd.

Why use any other pillar type if you can use :light pillars/mark and this?  This combo will always generate the quanta needed for the cards in hand.  Sure, you mention it won't power the quanta needed for ability cards, but clever combinations can certainly get around this.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 06, 2010, 05:02:07 am
A card specifically designed against both mono decks and :darkness cards.  How odd.

Why use any other pillar type if you can use :light pillars/mark and this?  This combo will always generate the quanta needed for the cards in hand.  Sure, you mention it won't power the quanta needed for ability cards, but clever combinations can certainly get around this.
Because if you don't draw a Spectral Reflector or Spectral Prism you're dead in the water.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kuroaitou on May 06, 2010, 05:36:24 am
A card specifically designed against both mono decks and :darkness cards.  How odd.

Why use any other pillar type if you can use :light pillars/mark and this?  This combo will always generate the quanta needed for the cards in hand.  Sure, you mention it won't power the quanta needed for ability cards, but clever combinations can certainly get around this.
Because if you don't draw a Spectral Reflector or Spectral Prism you're dead in the water.
Which is the true magic of this. You can't just spam light pillars and these and get all the quanta you need. Since it's based off how many cards of an element you have in hand, even playing one may not guarantee that card being out soon.

...I guess the only problem that I can now see with this card is that there's no "off-switch", in case you want to conserve some of your light quanta for something vital (Hope, Miracle, or even a Light Dragon), rather than remove some of it for a card you don't need to play at all.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Boingo on May 06, 2010, 04:06:25 pm
Which is the true magic of this. You can't just spam light pillars and these and get all the quanta you need. Since it's based off how many cards of an element you have in hand, even playing one may not guarantee that card being out soon.

...I guess the only problem that I can now see with this card is that there's no "off-switch", in case you want to conserve some of your light quanta for something vital (Hope, Miracle, or even a Light Dragon), rather than remove some of it for a card you don't need to play at all.
The "off switch" will be playing all the non :light cards in your hand or enough of them to let some of the :light accumulate.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 06, 2010, 04:38:02 pm
Lol why are these always so complex? :) My brain hurts after reading that description.

I like cards like Nova that are simple.
lol, my thoughts cycle between, Tactical Action, Calculations and Revelations. This is as simple to me as nova.
The problem is that Elements is not a game designed just for you. There are thousands of other people too, and these people (the general public) don't like complex cards. Keeping it simple is very important in game design. When you look at the most popular games in gaming history, all of them have a very simple core.

Fractal is a perfect example of a good card. It's really easy to understand, but opens up dozens of different possibilities. It's simple, yet complicated. That's what we need, not cards with complex descriptions.

There has been some talk about "unwritten rules". This card idea, if implemented in its current form, would be hands down the most complex card to understand in Elements. I'm betting that Zanz has an "unwritten rule" against complex cards like this one.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: thekillergame on May 06, 2010, 04:53:36 pm
Lol why are these always so complex? :) My brain hurts after reading that description.

I like cards like Nova that are simple.
lol, my thoughts cycle between, Tactical Action, Calculations and Revelations. This is as simple to me as nova.
The problem is that Elements is not a game designed just for you. There are thousands of other people too, and these people (the general public) don't like complex cards. Keeping it simple is very important in game design. When you look at the most popular games in gaming history, all of them have a very simple core.

Fractal is a perfect example of a good card. It's really easy to understand, but opens up dozens of different possibilities. It's simple, yet complicated. That's what we need, not cards with complex descriptions.

There has been some talk about "unwritten rules". This card idea, if implemented in its current form, would be hands down the most complex card to understand in Elements. I'm betting that Zanz has an "unwritten rule" against complex cards like this one.
then i'm not made for this game
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 06, 2010, 05:05:09 pm
Lol why are these always so complex? :) My brain hurts after reading that description.

I like cards like Nova that are simple.
lol, my thoughts cycle between, Tactical Action, Calculations and Revelations. This is as simple to me as nova.
The problem is that Elements is not a game designed just for you. There are thousands of other people too, and these people (the general public) don't like complex cards. Keeping it simple is very important in game design. When you look at the most popular games in gaming history, all of them have a very simple core.

Fractal is a perfect example of a good card. It's really easy to understand, but opens up dozens of different possibilities. It's simple, yet complicated. That's what we need, not cards with complex descriptions.

There has been some talk about "unwritten rules". This card idea, if implemented in its current form, would be hands down the most complex card to understand in Elements. I'm betting that Zanz has an "unwritten rule" against complex cards like this one.
Its my idea tho isn't it? If someone is allowed to have a card that would be meaningless to me, pass to the Crucible and maybe into the upper ranks, why can't an idea like mine go too? This is quite mathematically simple and once seen in action will likely provoke the response "Ah it makes quanta that matches the cards in my hand". Various posters have agreed here so I have some support.

My only response to complexity in the game and unwritten rules is: Explain Mutation in full.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Arondight on May 06, 2010, 05:34:02 pm
I actually like this a lot. If you're using a rainbow deck without Miracles and such, this thing would be amazing.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 06, 2010, 05:35:58 pm
Its my idea tho isn't it? If someone is allowed to have a card that would be meaningless to me, pass to the Crucible and maybe into the upper ranks, why can't an idea like mine go too? This is quite mathematically simple and once seen in action will likely provoke the response "Ah it makes quanta that matches the cards in my hand". Various posters have agreed here so I have some support.
The idea of this section is to give feedback on the cards and that's exactly what I'm doing. Whose idea this is makes no difference.


My only response to complexity in the game and unwritten rules is: Explain Mutation in full.
We are talking about two totally different things here. Cards like Mutation and Adrenaline require trial and error to see what exactly happens, but the cards themselves are very easy to understand. The description is easy to understand. It might be easy for you but the fact that you designed this card might have an effect.

If nothing more, you should at least try rewording of the description.


Many of these QUANTUM MECHANICS series cards are very difficult to understand, and many members have pointed it out (I've even received a PM about it). I'm not going to start arguing about it, but I can guarantee that I won't be voting any complex ideas to be moved to Forge because I think that would be a huge game design mistake. Then again my vote is no more important than someone else's so it's not the end of the world.


EDIT:
One interesting solution would be to make the cards so that unupped version is much less complicated. This way it would be easier for newbies to actually use the cards in deck building. Then when they get experience and are able to upgrade the card, it would become more complex giving veteran players more challenge.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Arondight on May 06, 2010, 05:57:55 pm
I think a lot have good effects, just that the explanations aren't explained well, to be blunt about it.

It could of said: At the end of your turn, consume :light by the same amount of non-darkness cards in your hand. Generate one quanta of the same element of each non-darkness card in your hand.

Don't know if that's easier to understand, but I'm just trying to help.  :)
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 06, 2010, 06:43:45 pm
Many of these QUANTUM MECHANICS series cards are very difficult to understand, and many members have pointed it out (I've even received a PM about it). I'm not going to start arguing about it, but I can guarantee that I won't be voting any complex ideas to be moved to Forge because I think that would be a huge game design mistake. Then again my vote is no more important than someone else's so it's not the end of the world.
EDIT:
One interesting solution would be to make the cards so that unupped version is much less complicated. This way it would be easier for newbies to actually use the cards in deck building. Then when they get experience and are able to upgrade the card, it would become more complex giving veteran players more challenge.
There is a problem tho, because we only broadcast the Image of the card for voting, the community does not get to see the mechanics that make the card work. If I go with simple text the voter does not know the details on the back end, if I put the detail in the text box, I get complaints of complex text. What am I to do when the environment treats me as such. To take experience from the veteran game Magic, their sets are a conglomerate of complex and simple cards. The Complex cards require an indepth knowledge of the game or investigation or analysation of the card text and new terms.

In the most part my Quantum Mechanics cards are for the experienced community. Nearly none of the cards will fit into an introduction deck as they are deck building pieces for constructed deck types. They are cards with interaction tasks, not just stock.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 06, 2010, 07:37:11 pm
Love this. Awesome. Even the art is <3.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 07, 2010, 06:45:25 am
I was thinking about the discussions here of complexity. To me anything is not complex if it is at its most simple formula. I can understand that this is not always appropriate for visual card ideas and this can come across as frustrating for some. I’d like you to help me bridge the gap.

Is this the simplest text I can put on the card to explain what the card does with enough detail to use it without dropping into minute aspects? If not, sling a suggestion of text at me.

PS. Thanks to those who have sent me private messages of support and for those wanting a more interestingly involved selection of card ideas that work with the game environment.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 07, 2010, 11:59:46 am
I don't think there is any easy way of saying it because there are so many things going on.

Spectral Reflector
1. Turns :light into quanta
2. Number and type of quanta is determined by the cards in your hand
3. Each card in your hand generates one quanta of that cards type
4. :darkness cards have no effect

That's how I see the different "stages" of that card. There are simply too many things going on there.

I think the idea of generating cards based on the what cards you currently have in your hand, is good. However when :light and :darkness came into play, this idea became way too complex.

I went to see the workshop thread, and unless I'm mistaken, the basic idea behind this card was originally by Kuroaitou in this workshop post: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5361.msg60479#msg60479

However the cards says: "IDEA BY: Kael Hate" which isn't actually true. If there is a workshop where people post ideas, you cannot just take those ideas and put your name on it. The person with the original idea should be mentioned somewhere.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 07, 2010, 12:33:22 pm
I went to see the workshop thread, and unless I'm mistaken, the basic idea behind this card was originally by Kuroaitou in this workshop post: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5361.msg60479#msg60479

However the cards says: "IDEA BY: Kael Hate" which isn't actually true. If there is a workshop where people post ideas, you cannot just take those ideas and put your name on it. The person with the original idea should be mentioned somewhere.
This card has been in catalog for other 3 months. I can even give you the original text file I have with the idea in process. When Kuroaitou posted his idea, I informed him I already had an idea with the principle he had suggested already to go. There is situation where 2 people can come up with the same idea via different methods and this is quite plausible with this when the mechanics of the idea are simple interactive combinations of components in the game. This is my idea tested and tweaked by me so it has my name on it. 

Mechanics:
-A card (or set of cards) that allow you to gain quanta to a proportion of how many cards of a certain element are in your hand, (not based off of your mark). However, other regular ways of gaining quanta are halted when you use this card.
The mechanic I left unsmipped from your quote is interesting and I have a card for light that already uses a similar effect I'll spend some time when I get back to post it to the card ideas section.
Also - I'm totally interested in what type of card you have for 'light' that matches the uncut quote of my previous post.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 07, 2010, 12:46:22 pm
Oh, ok. I assumed it was his idea because it was listed in the Quantum Mechanics thread with his name on it. I didn't read all the replies.

Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 07, 2010, 04:15:52 pm
Fixed that damn wandering Light Mark
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: ilovethevalley on May 08, 2010, 04:44:04 am
This card isn't too complex. I think after you see it in action it will be easy to figure out what's going on.

I do think that it's too cheap. Maybe increase the cost to 4 :light / 3 :light to reduce the card's power.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Xinef on May 08, 2010, 09:38:40 pm
So far it seems to by my favorite of Quantum Mechanic cards. I guess it would work nicely in a :light mark rainbow or :light decks splashing for some control cards like deflagration.

It would also be fun in a rainbow with mutations and eternity, so you could rewind mutants of certain element to cause it to produce that element :P

And I don't find the description too complex.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kyros on May 09, 2010, 06:55:36 pm
I really have no clue of what people are saying with "Complex Text". I understood perfectly what it does on the first read, with maybe just needing some clarification on just how many times it can work (Like with more than 2 cards of the same element). But that's nothing than simply watching it in action can't fix (Like some of the cards out there).

Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 09, 2010, 07:45:02 pm
Hmm.. did you change the description? It doesn't seem that bad anymore. Then again I know what it does now so I'm not a "newbie" anymore.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 10, 2010, 08:11:07 am
Hmm.. did you change the description? It doesn't seem that bad anymore. Then again I know what it does now so I'm not a "newbie" anymore.
Nope, Card text has not changed since its original inception. 

Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: icetimer on May 13, 2010, 09:56:35 pm
I understood when reading first time perfectly :) ->understandable in my opinion.

I like the idea and can imagine this beeing useful for light decks as it allows the usage of cheap cards from ANY element. I think the usage for normal rainbow may be more limited as it may take a while before light quanta is generated in large enough amounts at which point there will be enough quanta of other elements as well. But what do I know :P Maybe up the cost a little though.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 13, 2010, 10:30:01 pm
I propose you rename it like this:

Before
For each Non-Darkness
Elemental card in hand Spectral
Reflector turns :light into a Quanta
of that cards type.


After
For each Non-Darkness card
in hand Spectral Reflector
turns your :light into a Quanta
of that cards type.


I think the "Elemental" is not needed, and "your" clarifies the situation a bit.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: smuglapse on May 14, 2010, 06:06:00 am
It is quite an exercise to create a concise and accurate description for some of these cards, but here are a couple of tries:

I think the second one is probably best.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on May 14, 2010, 08:58:03 am
I propose you rename it like this:

Before
For each Non-Darkness
Elemental card in hand Spectral
Reflector turns :light into a Quanta
of that cards type.


After
For each Non-Darkness card
in hand Spectral Reflector
turns your :light into a Quanta
of that cards type.


I think the "Elemental" is not needed, and "your" clarifies the situation a bit.
Elemental is required because it has no effect on "Other" cards.




It is quite an exercise to create a concise and accurate description for some of these cards, but here are a couple of tries:

  • Each turn convert 1 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/light18x18.png)  into the corresponding element for each card in your hand.  Non-elemental and darkness cards are not affected.
  • Each turn gain 1 quantum of each non-darkness element in your hand.  Lose the same number of  (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/light18x18.png).
I think the second one is probably best.
Neither of these is technically correct.
PS. Why are you using images instead of smiley codes?
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 14, 2010, 10:12:58 am
I propose you rename it like this:

Before
For each Non-Darkness
Elemental card in hand Spectral
Reflector turns :light into a Quanta
of that cards type.


After
For each Non-Darkness card
in hand Spectral Reflector
turns your :light into a Quanta
of that cards type.


I think the "Elemental" is not needed, and "your" clarifies the situation a bit.
Elemental is required because it has no effect on "Other" cards.
Yes, I know why the "Elemental" is there. However as far as I know this "Elemental Card" is a term you just made up. To me it sounds different than a "card that belongs to a specific element", and some newbies might think "Elemental Card" is some kind of special card.

You could either:

1. Rename it like I suggested and let people see the effect through trial and error. Most of them will probably guess the effect because "Other" cards don't really have a type.

2. Make it so that "Other" cards produce 1 random quanta.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Avenger on May 14, 2010, 12:21:40 pm
2. Make it so that "Other" cards produce 1 random quanta.
This is not required. You can safely assume the 1 random quanta was light. (Light converted to light: no effect).
This card is not affected by: darkness, other, light cards.
I would change 'elemental' to 'spectral'. And add spectral to the wiki or other collection of terms.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: smuglapse on May 14, 2010, 08:49:26 pm
PS. Why are you using images instead of smiley codes?
Heh, I just right-clicked and copied the first quantum I saw.  But thanks for the tip!  :aether :air :darkness :death :earth :entropy :fire :gravity :life :light :time :water :D
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: MXXE on June 12, 2010, 04:19:30 pm
What do people have against complexity??? Even Zanz sais "Simple is good, thats how it is". And yet we have 130 different cards in one game! I perfectly understand every card of quantum mechanics and I like every single one (with exeptions maybe).
If I looked at great Luna I perfectly understood it, even if I dont know if "affect" is a multiplier or additor. If I look at this card it is ever clearer, it is completely defined what happens!

Without complex this game wouldn't work. Playing it with real cards would be close to impossible. Already keeping track of HP and quanta would use tons of paper, and mutation would need you to dice 5 times with different dices having from 4 to 20 sides. (Just that you know... I understand mutation, it's easy*)

If Zanz wanted to make an easy game it would be like that: only firepillars, asheaters and 25HP max. End.

Maybe me and Kaek should make our own game that consists of quantummechanics-cards, mutation (the idea would not be stolen as mutation takes all creatures and all abilities together which as a principle is just... obvious  :P), fate egg, 20 elements, each element being a mathematical problem like probability, geometry... Ok that would suck.

I just want to say: Currently this game is 1. building decks, 2. having ingame luck.
And the best decks are still the (so very complex) rainbow ones.



*mutation:
1. chose random creature
2. add randomly from 0 to 4 attack (+0 or +1 or +2 or +3 or +4)
2a. repeat for HP
3. replace skill with a skill taken from a list (list available in the wiki).
4. Set skill cost randomly to 1 or 2 from the creature's element.

Wait... what does the card say? "Turn the target creature into a superior mutant"!
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: tinkady on June 29, 2010, 11:26:09 pm
the way the card was worded, i thought that having a graboid in hand would simply give you :earth. but youre saying it gives you 3 :earth? confusing. but an interesting card...i like it
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on June 30, 2010, 12:20:00 am
the way the card was worded, i thought that having a graboid in hand would simply give you :earth. but youre saying it gives you 3 :earth? confusing. but an interesting card...i like it
If the only card you have in hand is a Graboid, the reflector will turn 1 :light into 1 :earth.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: tinkady on June 30, 2010, 12:26:40 am
the way the card was worded, i thought that having a graboid in hand would simply give you :earth. but youre saying it gives you 3 :earth? confusing. but an interesting card...i like it
If the only card you have in hand is a Graboid, the reflector will turn 1 :light into 1 :earth.
oh, ok. earlier discussion on the thread said something different? w/e
then i think its underpowered? not positive though. i think its only useful in a :light duo...but i could be wrong. maybe if you have a rainbow with a bunch of cards that cost 2 or less quanta
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on June 30, 2010, 12:37:42 am
oh, ok. earlier discussion on the thread said something different? w/e
THe idea has never changed in that regard so its a misinterpretation.

then i think its underpowered? not positive though. i think its only useful in a :light duo...but i could be wrong. maybe if you have a rainbow with a bunch of cards that cost 2 or less quanta
Its just fair. Not over or underpowered. It is designed for light to sub in other elements, self balancing by card presence in your deck.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: tinkady on June 30, 2010, 12:46:58 am
hmm...it allows light to sub in but not very much. i cant think of a deck where this would be all that useful because you need multiple copies just to play a single card most of the time. the only way you dont need many copies is if you dont have many elements. and in that case its better just to run a duo/trio. or am i missing something?
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: tinkady on June 30, 2010, 12:52:18 am
also, compare this to supernova. supernova has 2 :entropy cost to produce 24 quanta. this has 1 :light cost to produce 7 quanta at the most. definitely much worse. this produces only quanta you need, but only one of it while supernova gives you two. also, this one takes away from your :light while supernova keeps your :entropy evel. so, i'd say this card is good if 1) it produces 2 or 3 or something instead of 1 (no idea what is balanced) or 2) the price is increased by a lot and it produces all the quanta necessary to play the cards in your hand (if you have enough :light)
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Lifestream on June 30, 2010, 04:37:26 am
Good idea :D complicated.. but still a good idea, it balances miracle spamming
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: GG on June 30, 2010, 04:05:17 pm
i thought using the cards in hand as some sort of target is not allowed?
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: BluePriest on June 30, 2010, 04:52:30 pm
I like it. Simple, and straightforward. I dont see any need to reword it, and I really dont think this card is complicated.

And also, being a gamer since the age of 3, I like it when you have to do trial and error to figure out things. Elements doesnt have an instruction booklet like console games, so some things you just have to figure out for yourself. I Like having to learn things in games instead of being able to figure things out simple. I think this is a lot less complex than adrenaline (which I consider to be the most complicated card in the game).

A smart player would easily notice the that the cards in his hand is effecting what quanta is being generated.
Title: Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism
Post by: Kael Hate on June 30, 2010, 09:39:27 pm
i thought using the cards in hand as some sort of target is not allowed?
It does not target cards in hand in any way,

There are no cards that target cards in hand except for the discard mechanic. It would ssem plausible that Zanz could easily enough if needed. The contrast to this is the general dislike of the community of having a card destroyed before it has been played.
blarg: