Royal Guard | Royal Guard

[Pineapple]

Again, not everything that makes a creature with high HP, gravity pull, and a shield's ability should be considered the same card. Just as Squire is different from Flying Shield, Squire is different from Royal Guard

The mechanic of benefitting from shields is not a Gravity mechanic at all. Gravity pull and high HP are all aspects of the "benefitting from shields" mechanic, so they are justified to be out-of-element.

[moomoose]

"not everything that makes a creature with high HP, gravity pull, and a shield's ability should be considered the same card. "  ill never understand how anyone can say that with a straight face.

if you are going to use gravity pull, a card which is both a gravity spell and a gravity skill on a gravity creature, and nowhere else, it should incorporate gravity quanta in some way, or it is f'ed up, to put it bluntly.

[Pineapple]

That's obviously your own personal opinion.

Flying Shield | Animate Shield (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11632)
Dove | Guardian Dove (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12784)
Animate Shield | Animate Shield (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16700)
Harpy | Elite Harpy (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20436)
Last Stand | Last Hope (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25502)
Squire | Esquire (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32490)

[RRQJ]

-voodoo doll and armagio both have higher HP with equivalent or lower cost.
* and they dont benefit from shields and combined with the point two below
-why is it problematic to have a high health light creature?
* combined with the next point below
-the last thing implies that you think the combination is OP.  You haven't explained how it's OP though.  I feel it is powerful enough to create a new light deck (one that centers on light cards, which is currently rare), but not enough to be OP.
* which other element has a means to heal their gravity pulled creatures to prolong the effect in a mono-element environment, and confound that with the shield effect and healing is amplified.

the main issues i have are the first two i mentioned.  an extremely similar mechanic was already put forth, and this is a mono card which takes a gravity effect.

the skill cost can be changed to 1 or something.  I read through this thread quickly, but I don't recall seeing anywhere that the creator was opposed to changing the skill cost element.

the extremely similar mechanic - this issue was already blown out of proportion.  Chances are the relevant parties have spoken.  I think approval needs to be gained from a curator to move to the crucible, correct?  Since this card has, I'm guessing the issue has been resolved and the card should now be judged on its own.  Saying this card is bad because something similar exists is an invalid argument.

Now, if the creator decides to change the skill cost to gravity, the rest of your concerns are about balance, and in my opinion, you can't see this as an obvious unbalanced card.  I'm sure the crucible and forge are here to help fix those issues.

[moomoose]

wow, the idea is even more overdone than i had previously thought, giving even more reason this card should not be getting such support.  some of those can be fixed to be distinct (last stand for example could simply make it an activated ability, it does not interact with shields so it is sufficiently distinct otherwise), others are flawed and awkward (dove), others are fatally overlapping with what has already been put out there.  the biggest issues are the flying shields, squire and this card.

this card brings nothing worthwhile/new to the table.

[Pineapple]

Except maybe, I don't know, a mechanic that hasn't been done before, i.e. a Crusader for shields?

Also, I find all the cards I linked to have thematic justifications for gravity pull. Saying that creatures with shield abilities shouldn't have gravity pull is like saying that flying weapons shouldn't have more than 1 HP.

[moomoose]

"crusader for shields" is essentially "squire as a creature", a rather simple way of thinking.

did you think much before you typed out the second statement?  theme is one thing, but you cant just rip off another elements mechanics without incorporating that elements' quanta, or otherwise incorporating that element, in some way.  flying weapons hp is not linked to anything, if that flying weapon were to be gravity pulled automatically, then it would need a interaction, or what have you for other potential examples.

[Pineapple]

"crusader for shields" is essentially "squire as a creature", a rather simple way of thinking.

did you think much before you typed out the second statement?  theme is one thing, but you cant just rip off another elements mechanics without incorporating that elements' quanta, or otherwise incorporating that element, in some way.  flying weapons hp is not linked to anything, if that flying weapon were to be gravity pulled automatically, then it would need a interaction, or what have you for other potential examples.

Did you think much before you typed out the first statement? Squire sacrifices the shield you are currently equipped with when Squire is played and basically becomes the shield. Squire is not like Crusader at all, and therefore Royal Guard being similar to Crusader does not make it similar to Squire.

You seem to be very confused on what a shield is in Elements. A shield is a card with an effect that triggers when an enemy creature attacks. If its effect never triggers when an enemy creature attacks, then it's not a shield. Gravity pull as a mechanic redirects attacks, and there's no reason to have two names for one mechanic. The "shield-ness" of shields and the "guard" theme of Royal Guard already justify the redirection mechanic, so why are you looking for an Elemental justification that simply does not need to be there?

[moomoose]

the core of both cards is getting a creature to have gravity pull and the effect of a shield, sacrificing a shield is a balancing mechanism of squire that this card does not have.

there does need to be a association if you are going to apply gravity pull to something, just as you should have a association if you are going to have a adrenaline application on to something, which is why that component was removed from the updated SoR.  this card could very well have taken ahold of the shield's ability and *not* put on gravity pull, and *not* used .

[Pineapple]

this card could very well have taken ahold of the shield's ability and *not* put on gravity pull, and *not* used .

You seem to be very confused on what a shield is in Elements. A shield is a card with an effect that triggers when an enemy creature attacks. If its effect never triggers when an enemy creature attacks, then it's not a shield.

While we're at it, let's say that Crusader doesn't even need to take the weapon's ability, only the attack!

[moomoose]

except that the ability is usually linked to the element of the ability, through the 1) payment of the weapon and sometimes 2) association of the cost of the ability or effect of the ability (Fahrenheit).  this card has no association with gravity, but takes the gravity pull from gravity anyway.

and to your point of "if it isnt triggered by blah blah blah it isnt a shield"  it is too a shield without gravity pull, it just would rarely be triggered, unless someone put gravity pull on it.  but as has been said, changing the cost of the ability to gravity may help alleviate that issue of the card.

[OldTrees]

1) I can think of 3 and only 3 elements that have a justification to use a bodyguard mechanic. Gravity (Armagio), Earth (Warden) and Light. Gravity Pull in the case of Royal Guard is being used purely mechanically without also bringing the thematic excuse for the effect that Gravity uses. Is this optimal design? It is on the low end of Forge quality but nowhere near the mechanical-theme linkage of Crusader.

2) Yes, similar cards have been made before. The authors of the two most relevant threads got me to reluctantly agree that they might be sufficiently different from each other. At that point I let the community finish deciding.