Reverse Spawn | Reverse Evolution

[Artois]

Artois, if you have a creature that's poisoned or debuffed OTHER than antimatter, fate egg is still better.  You're going to end up with a fate egg anyway, and the egg itself costs less time quanta, plus you keep your creature until it dies.  I suppose if you want to avoid triggering an enemy Boneyard...

The only non-redundant use of this card, other than to counter antimatter, is against enemy creatures.  In which case the "more powerful spell" would give the enemy a regular fate egg, not an elite one.

Maybe the cost should be reduced?  I understand that reducing the opposition to a standard fate egg, rather than an elite egg would be beneficial.  More thoughts?

[johannhowitzer]

I really don't think competing on cost with fate egg is the right way to fix the issue.  Problem with this card is that right now it really doesn't have a niche - it's either UP (when using on friendlies) or OP (when using on enemies - it's an insta-kill against any enemy without time quanta).

You have a good concept, but I think you need to decide what this card's purpose is.  Is it CC?  A gamble for your own team?  A combination?  Or something else?

[miniwally]

good idea, but add in "and is readied when it is a fate egg" (readied meaning shard of readiness)

That implies the cost is free (if you add SoR bit)

[Kuroaitou]

I really don't think competing on cost with fate egg is the right way to fix the issue.  Problem with this card is that right now it really doesn't have a niche - it's either UP (when using on friendlies) or OP (when using on enemies - it's an insta-kill against any enemy without time quanta).

You have a good concept, but I think you need to decide what this card's purpose is.  Is it CC?  A gamble for your own team?  A combination?  Or something else?

I think it's better suited as CC (it's more like Mutation - you generally use it on an opponent's creature to make it weaker and or lobotomize its ability whenever possible, except in this case, turning them into a Fate Egg is really strong). Using it on your own team is a little bit less effective, because you could probably just place the Fate eggs into the deck itself rather than relying on a card to turn weak cards like Deja vu into Fate eggs (wasting quanta in this process).

I feel that the elite card should create an elite fate egg, as a more powerful spell.

I partially agree with that statement, only if you claim it to be a counterpart to Entropy's Mutation/Improved Mutation cards, where one card is DRASTICALLY better than the other. At the same time though, a Fallen Druid's 'Improve' active skill doesn't create upgraded creatures, only mutated non-upped creatures with better stats and a crazy skill.

[tyranim]

the reason the hatch cost should be free, is because this will only be a good card if you use time quanta, or you could use it against an opponent with no time quanta, which would be almost as powerful as insta ko, which is bad

[ratcharmer]

I think this would actually be MORE powerful than an insta-KO against anything that wasn't a time deck, since it would fill one of your opponents creature slots with a useless 0/1 creature.

If you made the card give the targets owner a single time quantum it could solve both the main concerns about this card in one fell swoop. It wouldn't be OP for creature control since your opponent could then actually use the fate eggs, and it would be a more viable tactic to use on your own creatures since it would no longer be as costly.

[johannhowitzer]

How did this get into the Forge so fast?  Last I saw it wasn't even in the Crucible.

[Kael Hate]

How did this get into the Forge so fast?  Last I saw it wasn't even in the Crucible.

Its been in the crucible a bit over 3 weeks. When it came to this Forge move, it was tied with the Exploding pot and I put my vote in the Reverse spawn so it was the one that moved.

[Artois]

So where are we at?

1.  Is the cost too high, or as its main use is CC is it about right?
     I'm not sure on this one, and I haven't read any posts that say its a big problem either way.
2.  Is the idea that the basic card produces a fate egg, and the elite card produces an elite fate egg about right?
     Obviously the elite card must come at a (signigicantly) reduced cost otherwise it gives the opposition better potential cards after hatch for no benefit to the user?!
3.  Should the target creature then be allowed a free hatch/time quanta for hatch?
     I see no reason to allow FREE hatching, as that negates one of the aspects of this card - however, heres an idea, could the new Egg be hatched by say 10 random quanta, enabling any player to hatch the egg?  It does seem simpler to me, just to produce a standard egg though...

(sorry about the traffic lights!)

[johannhowitzer]

10 is way too high, perhaps make the cost 1 of whatever type the target creature required.  Thus on the first use of this, the opponent would get a random creature of random type, but maybe a good one or bad one.  On the second use (assuming the hatch isn't same type or immaterial) the opponent would get an egg maybe he couldn't use.  IMO this would be neither OP nor UP.

I still think the eliteness of the fate egg created should be based on the eliteness of the target creature.  That way if you reverse your own and you're working with all upped cards, you're sure to get an elite egg, and if your opponent is working with unupped, he's sure to get a normal egg.  The upgrade could just be as is, a lowered cost.

[Artois]

I still think the eliteness of the fate egg created should be based on the eliteness of the target creature.  That way if you reverse your own and you're working with all upped cards, you're sure to get an elite egg, and if your opponent is working with unupped, he's sure to get a normal egg.  The upgrade could just be as is, a lowered cost.

Thats a good idea, so the card will produce an egg dependant on whether or not the target creature is elite or not, therefore the only advantage to using an elite reverse spawn would be cost.  I like that.

I'm still not sure though, that the egg should be hatched without time quanta.  As although it could lock up a deck without time quanta, it could still spawn a better creature for those with the required quanta.  There are a lot of rainbow/supernova decks out there!  Further who is likely to carry more than a few of these cards, at this cost, not knowing if the opponent is carrying time?

[Kuroaitou]

That's a good idea, so the card will produce an egg dependent on whether or not the target creature is elite or not, therefore the only advantage to using an elite reverse spawn would be cost.  I like that.

I'm still not sure though, that the egg should be hatched without time quanta.  As although it could lock up a deck without time quanta, it could still spawn a better creature for those with the required quanta.  There are a lot of rainbow/supernova decks out there!  Further who is likely to carry more than a few of these cards, at this cost, not knowing if the opponent is carrying time?

Any competition where you'll have pure mono-decks in question, or non-upgraded cards. Non-upgraded rainbows are generally too slow, and in mono-tournaments, you have a 1/12 chance for them to actually hatch the egg in question.

Personally, I would LOVE to use this in any deck. It provides a really awesome form of control, not to mention, allows for deck cluttering if you can reverse the egg into the deck (thus, them drawing a card they can't play unless they're splashing somehow). I'd rather you keep the 'Hatch' skill , because it literally makes no sense to have it cost random quanta (eggs take time to be nurtured and born into the world, not , , or other cards).