*Author

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg323865#msg323865
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2011, 12:56:16 am »
Very nice!  Only one thing I am concerned about, which is this: "May be used more than once per turn if flown or endowed."

:air / :time would get you easy multiple Dive stacks if I'm reading this correctly.
If you fly 2 Reprisals you can recharge a total of twice per turn.

Multiple Dive stacks were what I calculated the balance for in my first post. It will happen but not be a problem.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg323866#msg323866
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2011, 12:57:39 am »
Oh, multiplicative is fine?  OK then.

Offline Vipy5

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 188
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Vipy5 is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg323899#msg323899
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2011, 01:59:06 am »
This seems a pretty powerful card, but a  :air/ :time deck is almost definately most powerful with this, I agree with the rewording of the flight ability, which seems to even it out, though if you use crusaders/flight in yolur deck this could be a bit OP

Offline coinich

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
  • Reputation Power: 19
  • coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Old to Elements
  • Awards: War #5 Winner - Team Aether
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg323904#msg323904
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2011, 02:09:19 am »
This seems a pretty powerful card, but a  :air/ :time deck is almost definately most powerful with this, I agree with the rewording of the flight ability, which seems to even it out, though if you use crusaders/flight in yolur deck this could be a bit OP
If you can get out a Crusader/Reprisal/Peggy combo, and actually get it good, you may deserve to win.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg323906#msg323906
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2011, 02:09:52 am »
This seems a pretty powerful card, but a  :air/ :time deck is almost definately most powerful with this, I agree with the rewording of the flight ability, which seems to even it out, though if you use crusaders/flight in yolur deck this could be a bit OP
How? The most powerful case was examined and I believe evidently balanced.

If you fly Reprisals to use Dive more than twice per turn (example: 4 times upgraded)
Casting Cost: 4 :air + 3x5 :time + 2 :rainbow + 6 cards.
(Converted quanta cost = 27-32 quanta + 1 card. High cost for a victory but it takes little time after the pieces are assembled.)
Activation Cost: 8 :air + 3 :time
(Total Converted quanta cost for 1 turn of Dive^4 = 38-43 quanta +1 card.)
Damage that turn: 5x16+3x5=80+15=95 (close enough to a victory)
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg323909#msg323909
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2011, 02:12:27 am »
Pegasus is inferior to Wyrm in combo with this card.  Wyrms only require Air, while Pegasi require both Light and Air.  Also, Air gets Flying Weapon.

Genuinous

  • Guest
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg323913#msg323913
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2011, 02:23:00 am »
The ultimate combo would undoubtedly be
Pegasi+Reprisal+PU
If it was possible to create this quartet, Pegasus would be able to get to enormous sizes. Mostly you'd need  :aether and  :time, just a little  :air for diving and  :light to play 1 Pegasus.

This card has the potential to open a new set of decks. I'm looking forward to see it later ;) Kudos.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg323915#msg323915
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2011, 02:26:37 am »
The ultimate combo would undoubtedly be
Pegasi+Reprisal+PU
If it was possible to create this quartet, Pegasus would be able to get to enormous sizes. Mostly you'd need  :aether and  :time, just a little  :air for diving and  :light to play 1 Pegasus.

This card has the potential to open a new set of decks. I'm looking forward to see it later ;) Kudos.
Even with Soul Pillars and Quantum Harmonizers I think that quartet would have problems. Thanks for the problem! Now to add that to the idea factory thread.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Manipul8r

  • Guest
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg324017#msg324017
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2011, 05:43:47 am »
Very nice!  Only one thing I am concerned about, which is this: "May be used more than once per turn if flown or endowed."

:air / :time would get you easy multiple Dive stacks if I'm reading this correctly.
If you fly 2 Reprisals you can recharge a total of twice per turn.

Multiple Dive stacks were what I calculated the balance for in my first post. It will happen but not be a problem.
I didn't realize you had to fly both of them, I figured that the statement in the notes just implied that the ability can be used twice on the same creature as long as you can pull it off.  It would be kind of strange and difficult to keep track of if not.

I looked at your calculations but many values there are really estimates for hypothetical balancing and when doing such a complex calculation that makes it very imprecise.  I can't tell if the multiple stacks were calculated (perhaps I'm reading it wrong), but with 2 recharges it should hit 24|40 damage.  I figured there would be a 2^X somewhere.

To me it just seems the cost : damage ratio is relatively low.  The initial required quanta (10 :time + 4 :air + 1 :air| :rainbow) gets the pieces out, then the upkeep (4|2 :time + 6 :air) hits for 24|40.  Another 5 :time and 1 :air + 1 card can get you 48|80 damage for just 2|1 :time and 2 :air more upkeep each turn.  But I think the most powerful part is that even if they kill your Wyrm, you only need another one for 4 :air to do the same thing (as it is not a single use buff such as Blessing or Adrenaline).

Offline The_Mormegil

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2262
  • Country: it
  • Reputation Power: 32
  • The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • Intelligence is overrated.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #5 Winner - Team AetherTeam PvP WinnerNew Slot Winner - FamiliarDeadly Sin Winner - GluttonyFirst Budosei of BudokanWinner of Revive the Archive
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg324019#msg324019
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2011, 05:54:44 am »
The ultimate combo would undoubtedly be
Pegasi+Reprisal+PU
If it was possible to create this quartet, Pegasus would be able to get to enormous sizes. Mostly you'd need  :aether and  :time, just a little  :air for diving and  :light to play 1 Pegasus.

This card has the potential to open a new set of decks. I'm looking forward to see it later ;) Kudos.
Even with Soul Pillars and Quantum Harmonizers I think that quartet would have problems. Thanks for the problem! Now to add that to the idea factory thread.
You need to be heavy on :aether and :time, while only splashing in some light and air. You can work this off with a combination of Quantum Spiral and Temples: Quantum Spirals to produce the quanta you need, with Temples converting :light and :air to :aether (mark) and possibly Time Towers to even it out a bit.
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg324025#msg324025
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2011, 06:20:29 am »
The ultimate combo would undoubtedly be
Pegasi+Reprisal+PU
If it was possible to create this quartet, Pegasus would be able to get to enormous sizes. Mostly you'd need  :aether and  :time, just a little  :air for diving and  :light to play 1 Pegasus.

This card has the potential to open a new set of decks. I'm looking forward to see it later ;) Kudos.
Even with Soul Pillars and Quantum Harmonizers I think that quartet would have problems. Thanks for the problem! Now to add that to the idea factory thread.
You need to be heavy on :aether and :time, while only splashing in some light and air. You can work this off with a combination of Quantum Spiral and Temples: Quantum Spirals to produce the quanta you need, with Temples converting :light and :air to :aether (mark) and possibly Time Towers to even it out a bit.
I forgot to consider Temples because they are a duo card like pendulums. However unlike pendulums they work better for uneven splits rather than the 50/50 of Pendulums.
Time Mark with Aether Pendulums, Temples of Light and Temples of Air would do the trick. You would have excess :time though so maybe swap some or all Aether Pendulums for Pillars?.

"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline The_Mormegil

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2262
  • Country: it
  • Reputation Power: 32
  • The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.The_Mormegil is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • Intelligence is overrated.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #5 Winner - Team AetherTeam PvP WinnerNew Slot Winner - FamiliarDeadly Sin Winner - GluttonyFirst Budosei of BudokanWinner of Revive the Archive
Re: Reprisal | Reprisal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25429.msg324032#msg324032
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2011, 06:33:39 am »
I forgot to consider Temples because they are a duo card like pendulums. However unlike pendulums they work better for uneven splits rather than the 50/50 of Pendulums.
Time Mark with Aether Pendulums, Temples of Light and Temples of Air would do the trick. You would have excess :time though so maybe swap some or all Aether Pendulums for Pillars?.
Possibly change the mark to :aether - PUs are the most expensive cards in the combo.

Reprisal x5
Pegasus x4
Parallel Universe x5
Flying Weapon x4
Soul Pillar x6
Time Pillar x4
Air Temple x1
Light Temple x1


A rather bad deck, though. I would probably slim it down a bit and add defense, the combo requires just too many cards. But this was a quantum balancing experiment more than a Reprisal balancing experiment.
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

 

blarg: