Pariah | Exile

[moomoose]

NAME: Pariah ELEMENT: Other COST: 3 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: Q | 2 TEXT: Q = 1 for every elemantal quanta type possessed by your opponent	NAME: Exile ELEMENT: Other COST: 3 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: Q | 4 TEXT: Q = 1 for every elemantal quanta type possessed by your opponent

ART: hawanja http://freakmutantmonster.blogspot.com/2009/05/samael-angel-of-death.html IDEA: moomoose NOTES: updated to be a finite range between 0-12, making it strong against rainbows (and decks using immolation), weak against monos-duos, SERIES:

original:

NAME: Pariah ELEMENT: Other COST: 3 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: Q|2 TEXT: Q = 1 for every 10 quanta possessed by your opponent	NAME: Exile ELEMENT: Other COST: 3 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: Q|4 TEXT: Q = 1 for every 10 quanta possessed by your opponent

ART: Hawanja http://freakmutantmonster.blogspot.com/2009/05/samael-angel-of-death.html IDEA: moomoose NOTES: The pariah/exile gains strength as his opponent's tie towards the elements, which rejected him, grows thicker. I tried to think of how to make a creature for 'other' which had no elemental association, so the best idea I had was that which was outcast by the elements, and would gain/lose power related to to opponent's quanta pool. SERIES:

[OldTrees]

I know that you are trying for an other creature. However gaining power from the opponent is more of a Darkness motif.

I think the easiest way to make an other creature would be to not give it a skill.

The next easiest would be to give it a full spectrum skill.

Making a non elementally affiliated skill is hard given the scope of the elements. The shards are good examples of these kind of skills. (Although even then SoG feels like a Life card and SoD was copied with Stoneskin)

[moomoose]

im not sure i agree with the statement about it being a darkness motif skill.  other elements gain power from the enemy, black hole being the prime example.  and this is rage against the quanta, essentially. which you could say is a fire motif i guess.  but this is strongest against rainbow decks, which gain their strength from *all* elements while this card has none.

[Malduk]

I agree with moo, nothing related to darkness in this card.

I do like that its a counter to rainbow decks, but its not so good against rainbows as against... false gods. Quint one, sit back?
The reason its not THAT good against rainbows is that speed rainbows will use quanta fast, and kill you fast. Control rainbow will gather tons of quanta probably, but it will also kill this dude easily.
On paper, it seems actually very strong. Quanta is produced just before Pariah/Exile refreshes its attack status, so it will always have relatively decent attack for 3 "other" quanta.

On a side note, this thing is immune to AM as it refreshes its attack value on every turn, right?

[OldTrees]

Of all the cards that use the opponent's strength, the majority [8/12] are darkness. The remaining 3/12 from gravity are based on draining/consuming which is something that gravity sometimes does.  With the exception of Twin Universe for Aether.
  Devourer|Pest
  Steal|Improved Steal
  Drain Life|Siphon Life
  Minor Vampire|Vampire
  Liquid Shadow|Liquid Shadow
  Voodoo Doll|Voodoo Doll + Gravity Pull|Gravity Pull
  Vampire Stiletto|Vampire Dagger
  Black Nymph|Dark Nymph
  Otyugh|Elite Otyugh
  Black Hole|Black Hole
  Paralell Universe|Twin Universe
  Fractal|Fractal
  Mindgate|Mindgate
  Scarab|Elite Scarab
  Pharaoh| Pharaoh
  Dune Scorpion|Dune Scorpion

  8/17 [50% of Darkness cards]
  3/17 [20% of Gravity cards]
  3/17 [21% of Aether cards]
  3/17 [18% of Time cards]

So I think growing in power based upon the opponents power is primarily Darkness and sometimes other elements. (I would lean  Darkness)

this would make a nice darkness card though. (Exiled from the opponent to your side but still draws power from your opponent)

[moomoose]

Yeah, AM would work for one turn basically and then be adjusted at the end of the turn.  I thought about capping it at 15 or 20 damage, but honestly when it gets up that high, its partly due to quanta hording overkill in the deck of the opponent.  And if a rainbow gets stalled (cant go over/around shields) then the quanta will start to build up.

trees, youre forgetting aether, which can benefit from the opponent- twin universe, fractal, mind gate. and time with scarabs.

[OldTrees]

Good point I did forget those.

You make a good point:
Even though gaining power based on the opponent's power is a Darkness motif, it has also bled into other elements.
1 Other card that uses the same technique would not be amiss. (A trend would be though but I think we might agree on that)

On the mechanics I do recommend a cap to the power. If the cap is never reached then its existential is not harmful, if the caps value would otherwise be easy to greatly exceed then the cap is doing a good service.

24 or 36 sound like nice numbers to cap the attack at.

[Malduk]

Yeah, AM would work for one turn basically and then be adjusted at the end of the turn. 

That depends on when exactly attack value refreshes. If its at beginning of your turn (end of your opponents turn, when his quanta is generated), AM will never do anything.

[moomoose]

personally i dont believe in pinning down any particular element to what is already established, for the most part.  if the creature is firmly entrenched in the theme of an element but the corresponding ability is already associated with another element, in my opinion it is OK for the creature to stay in that element.  if the ability doesnt really meld that well with the creature and the ability doesnt mesh with the element, that is when a elemental switch may be in order.  but when the ability fits with the creature and the creature fits with the element, I would not worry about the ability not fitting the element it is in as it currently stands.

mald- i phrased it the way i did purposefully, at the end of the exile's turn is when the adjustment is made, after it attacks.

[OldTrees]

personally i dont believe in pinning down any particular element to what is already established, for the most part.  if the creature is firmly entrenched in the theme of an element but the corresponding ability is already associated with another element, in my opinion it is OK for the creature to stay in that element.  if the ability doesnt really meld that well with the creature and the ability doesnt mesh with the element, that is when a elemental switch may be in order.  but when the ability fits with the creature and the creature fits with the element, I would not worry about the ability not fitting the element it is in as it currently stands.

My comments were more about how the flavor fit either other or Darkness and the effect was Darkness. Therefore I feel that it would work better as a Darkness creature. I have been convinced that it would also work as an other creature.

In order from most optimal to least optimal IMO
1) Creature fits with Skill, Creature fits with Element and Skill fits with Element
2) Creature fits with Skill and Creature fits with Element
3) Creature fits with Skill and Skill fits with Element
4) Creature fits with Element and Skill fits with Element
5) Creature fits with Skill
6) Creature fits with Element
7) Skill fits with Element
8 ) None fit

I think only 1 and 2 are good design with 1 being preferred over 2 if possible.
3 should be changed to the Creature's element
4 should be made into 2 cards
5 should be moved to a better element (based on the creature optimally)
6 should change its skill
7 should change the flavor of the creature
8 should be abandoned

[AnonymousRevival]

I thought people didn't like other creatures because it makes people "forget" about the uniqueness of each element.