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Elements the Game => Level 2 - Forge => Card Ideas and Art => Forge Archive => Topic started by: Elbirn on May 21, 2013, 09:53:04 pm

Title: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Elbirn on May 21, 2013, 09:53:04 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/ogsOquK.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Sr31Yk4.png)
NAME:
Liquid Madness
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
2 :entropy
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
The target creature is delayed for one turn and gains        :darkness :darkness lycanthropy. Previous skills are removed.
NAME:
Liquid Madness
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
2 :entropy
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
The target creature is delayed for one turn and gains        :darkness  lycanthropy. Previous skills are removed.

ART:
Elbirn (Modified from Zanzarino's work)
IDEA:
Elbirn
NOTES:
Wanted to make a sort of Head Lycanthrope creature that turns other creatures into Lycan's, then decided that lycanthropy on a stick was OP. Figured idea had more in common with Liquid Shadow, so decided to turn the card into a sort of companion to that. Creature delay to force the one turn delay that the lycanthrope creature card experiences and for flexibility.
SERIES:

Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Vangelios on May 21, 2013, 10:04:18 pm
Is a more one option to raise the status, is a good card I think balanced
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: skyironsword on May 21, 2013, 10:42:37 pm
5 :underworld for +5|+5. Hmmm...
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Vangelios on May 21, 2013, 11:14:06 pm
Quote from: skyironsword on May 21, 2013, 10:42:37 pm
5 :underworld for +5|+5. Hmmm...
But and do not forget " delayed " actually do not think it needed it, the removal of skill I think is enough
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: skyironsword on May 22, 2013, 12:28:12 am
A bit UP actually, due to being a duo. I have yet to see any uses for this outside a rainbow.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 22, 2013, 12:34:31 am
Compare it to something like blessing and I think it's fairly balanced, although probably a bit underpowered, to be honest.  It would be really cool to play this on a lycanthrope multiple times, though :p  I don't think you even really need the delay, either.  If you play it on a new creature, it won't be able to use the ability that first turn, anyway.  This is definitely a fun card more than anything else.  (dragon lycanthropes ftw!)  It could also see some minor use as a sort of poor man's lobotomizer or the like.  (oops, sorry, your nymph now has lycanthropy...)
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Elbirn on May 22, 2013, 04:42:12 am
Aye, I tried balancing this using blessing, Lycanthrope, and Liquid Shadow. I kinda felt like the one turn delay would be necessary because one could play this on a creature that's already been out a turn or so and use the ability (Sauce: Mitosis on creatures already out for a turn), then play again, use ability, play again, use ability. The one turn delay forces one to space out the ability.

Maybe that makes it seem UP, but gaining +5|+5 per card is pretty powerful. Throwing in that CP is in element already and darkness has vamps...Honestly I think this could lead to OP combos, I honestly considered making this card more expensive and still kinda feel like I should.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: furballdn on May 22, 2013, 05:44:54 am
This = 3 :entropy + 1 card + 2 :darkness + lobo + 1 turn delay for +5/+5
Blessing = 3 :light +  1 card for +3/+3
Chaos power = 1 :entropy + 1 card + Upgrade for an average of +3/+3

This feels a bit UP.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Brontos on May 22, 2013, 06:58:06 am
Maybe you can reduce the casting cost to 1. The delay and the dual quanta needed are already balancing the effect.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Rutarete on May 22, 2013, 07:10:30 am
I feel like this is more powerful than any of the other buff spells, besides momentum, because it gives the biggest all-around boost. Blessing can save little creatures from most things, but this on any creature takes it out of range of all instant-kill type CC. Plus, using this repeatedly is slightly more efficient than Rage Pot + Archangel.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Elbirn on May 23, 2013, 12:57:57 am
Good points Ruta. Also, I feel that removing the 1 turn delay or decreasing casting cost would make this card overshadow the lycanthrope card, or at the very least be redundant...

Any other comments, suggestions, ideas?
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: skyironsword on May 23, 2013, 08:53:29 pm
Quote from: Elbirn on May 22, 2013, 04:42:12 am
Aye, I tried balancing this using blessing, Lycanthrope, and Liquid Shadow. I kinda felt like the one turn delay would be necessary because one could play this on a creature that's already been out a turn or so and use the ability (Sauce: Mitosis on creatures already out for a turn), then play again, use ability, play again, use ability. The one turn delay forces one to space out the ability.

Maybe that makes it seem UP, but gaining +5|+5 per card is pretty powerful. Throwing in that CP is in element already and darkness has vamps...Honestly I think this could lead to OP combos, I honestly considered making this card more expensive and still kinda feel like I should.

Vamps? They would lose their ability upon playing this card.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: artimies7 on May 24, 2013, 02:46:48 am
This on a Spark, Mitosis. Repeat.

Potentially bad?

Good idea though. Very thematic.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: CuCN on May 24, 2013, 03:37:00 am
You would still need to buff the spark separately, because without a buff:
If you play this the turn the spark is summoned, it will not be able to use the skill immediately and will die before the summoning sickness wears off;
If you play this a turn after the spark is summoned... what spark?
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Elbirn on May 24, 2013, 03:53:36 am
Yeah, what Cyanide said. And honestly, that argument could be applied to any other buff card and would be infinitely more valid, but I don't think there's anyone who thinks Spark + Buff + mitosis decks are some game breaking strategy xD
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: jawdirk on May 24, 2013, 06:26:04 pm
This is severely UP. Think of it as a Shard of Patience that only affects one creature, and only lasts for one turn. It is worse than that because if the one creature gets destroyed, you lose this card too.

I would recommend removing the delay and increasing the cost by  :entropy or so.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: skyironsword on May 24, 2013, 06:32:00 pm
If he does that, then it's much worse than other buff cards.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: jawdirk on May 24, 2013, 07:58:44 pm
Quote from: skyironsword on May 24, 2013, 06:32:00 pm
If he does that, then it's much worse than other buff cards.

I'm not sure what you mean by "worse." It is +5/+5 which is better than +3/+3. In some situations, +5/+5 is worse than +6/-6. It is definitely more expensive than the other buff cards, but +5/+5 is pretty beefy.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on May 24, 2013, 07:59:37 pm
Guys, it is not as UP as you may think. Delay effect can be used as CC instead of a buff and can lobotomize cruel skills like Reverse Time of a Flying Eternity or Crusader or whatever. However, I would reduce its cost to 2 :entropy while upped (otherwise it is too overshadowed by Chaos Power).
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 24, 2013, 08:04:30 pm
Alternative wording to reflect that of others.

(http://i.imgur.com/avRuoix.png)
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: jawdirk on May 24, 2013, 09:19:32 pm
Quote from: ARTHANASIOS on May 24, 2013, 07:59:37 pm
Guys, it is not as UP as you may think. Delay effect can be used as CC instead of a buff and can lobotomize cruel skills like Reverse Time of a Flying Eternity or Crusader or whatever. However, I would reduce its cost to 2 :entropy while upped (otherwise it is too overshadowed by Chaos Power).

I see what you mean. I still think it is UP though. Keeping the delay, I think it would be fine at :entropy :entropy,  :darkness :darkness unupped and  :entropy,  :darkness upped. Against an enemy creature, it is worse than freeze, but it is a good card since it is flexible.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: skyironsword on May 24, 2013, 10:14:16 pm
Quote from: jawdirk on May 24, 2013, 07:58:44 pm
Quote from: skyironsword on May 24, 2013, 06:32:00 pm
If he does that, then it's much worse than other buff cards.

I'm not sure what you mean by "worse." It is +5/+5 which is better than +3/+3. In some situations, +5/+5 is worse than +6/-6. It is definitely more expensive than the other buff cards, but +5/+5 is pretty beefy.

By that argument, then crimson dragon is always better than photon. "It is definitely more expensive than the other buff creature cards, but +5/+5 12|3 is pretty beefy"
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: CuCN on May 24, 2013, 10:55:54 pm
Quote from: skyironsword on May 24, 2013, 10:14:16 pm
Quote from: jawdirk on May 24, 2013, 07:58:44 pm
Quote from: skyironsword on May 24, 2013, 06:32:00 pm
If he does that, then it's much worse than other buff cards.

I'm not sure what you mean by "worse." It is +5/+5 which is better than +3/+3. In some situations, +5/+5 is worse than +6/-6. It is definitely more expensive than the other buff cards, but +5/+5 is pretty beefy.

By that argument, then crimson dragon is always better than photon. "It is definitely more expensive than the other buff creature cards, but +5/+5 12|3 is pretty beefy"


No. By jawdirk's argument, Crimson Dragon is not always worse than Photon.
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: skyironsword on May 24, 2013, 11:13:21 pm
Hilarious wording ;D
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: dragtom on May 24, 2013, 11:59:57 pm
don't touch the :darkness cost of using the skill!
It makes than the unupped as cc.

Just compare it to purify. Once that could target the opponent, the unupped version also gave 2 counters-
just so that using the upped version on the opponent would never be worse than using the unupped version.
I'd just stick to a lower :entropy cost.
or, if you want to make the chaos complete, give the upped version the ability :earth growth
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Elbirn on May 25, 2013, 02:32:21 am
I decreased the casting cost of :darkness instead of :entropy to make the card comparable to Lycanthrope. In my opinion, having a cost of :darkness :darkness or :darkness is pretty negligible as CC. Either the opponent has darkness quanta in their deck, or they don't.

Also, I desire opinions, so I've added a poll for whether or not the 1 turn delay should be removed.

Keep in mind.

1. Removing the delay takes away part of its use as soft CC.
2. Removing the delay makes this a much better buff card, but could that make it too powerful?
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: Elbirn on December 02, 2013, 10:31:46 pm
Liquid Madness now in crucible polls :D
Don't forget to submit your votes to crucible/armory, your feedback keeps the CIA section going
Title: Re: Liquid Madness | Liquid Madness
Post by: timetock on December 03, 2013, 01:14:16 am
rainbow decks? All I see is :entropy :darkness duo with lycanthropes and this and liquid shadow. Doesn't even need that much quanta of either. Just need like 8 Entropy pillars for a fast start and a :darkness mark, for some extremely beefy creatures with vampire. who said rainbow?
blarg: