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Offline choongmyoung

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007093#msg1007093
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2012, 04:53:36 am »
Hmm. Let's think about Anubis.

Anubis with 1 :aether: immortalize -> Dead Weight -> 4 :aether.
SoR'd Anubis -> Dead Weight -> 3 :aether, since it keeps :aether mark on his skill activation.
TU'd SoR'd Anubis -> Dead Weight -> 3 :rainbow, since it does not have :aether mark.

Am I right?
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Offline krackocloudTopic starter

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007097#msg1007097
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2012, 05:13:29 am »
Does TU remove marks? Not completely sure (beginner here), but I'd think that it would stick with  :aether. It should stick to its original mark.

Offline choongmyoung

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007104#msg1007104
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2012, 05:29:52 am »
Does TU remove marks? Not completely sure (beginner here), but I'd think that it would stick with  :aether. It should stick to its original mark.
But, how can we know the original mark?
Anubis + SoR + Twin Universe = No mark, but :aether
Anubis + Antimatter + Butterfly Effect + SoR + Twin Universe = No mark, but :entropy
Anubis + Mitosis + SoR + Twin Universe = No mark, but :time
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Offline krackocloudTopic starter

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007113#msg1007113
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2012, 06:26:39 am »
Whatever the creature's ability currently is, use its initial element cost. How the game knows what it is, well, is a matter of the game's programming, so I can't give you a good answer.
If I'm not understanding something, anyone feel free to drop a line.

Offline choongmyoung

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007116#msg1007116
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2012, 06:33:10 am »
Whatever the creature's ability currently is, use its initial element cost. How the game knows what it is, well, is a matter of the game's programming, so I can't give you a good answer.
If I'm not understanding something, anyone feel free to drop a line.
Initial element cost? Is that mean the creature's element or the creature's initial skill cost element?

Physalia is :water creature, Physalia's skill cost element is :death, BE'd Physalia's is :entropy.
Then what is the skill cost element of Dead Weight'd BE'd Physalia? :death, :entropy or :water?

Micro abomination do not have initial skill cost element, and BE gives :entropy.
What is Dead Weight'd BE'd Micro Abomination's skill cost element? :entropy or :rainbow?
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Offline krackocloudTopic starter

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007149#msg1007149
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2012, 02:51:19 pm »
Initial cost means skill element, not the creature's.

Physalia's extra cost would be :death, unless BE'd, then it'd be :entropy
Abomination has no skill, so there would be no extra cost. BE'd, it'd be  :entropy

Offline choongmyoung

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007172#msg1007172
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2012, 04:29:25 pm »
Isn't this the worse version of lobo? Do we really need this, and is its cost worth it?
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Offline krackocloudTopic starter

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007179#msg1007179
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2012, 04:50:28 pm »
It's a semi-lobo with attack debuffing, I guess it's supposed to serve its own purpose as an all-around weighing down spell. It can target non-skill creatures and still give them the attack debuffs.

Offline Elbirn

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007220#msg1007220
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2012, 09:14:16 pm »
@The original idea: Since it's such a situational card, could it be balanced with a cost of just 1 :gravity (both unupped and upped)?

@The idea of debuffing attack: Should a spell have two effects? Why not just have one or the other? Is having a card that removes a few attack points worth using? Is a card that removes a LOT of attack points worth it, since at that point you could have just killed the creature in question?
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Offline krackocloudTopic starter

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007226#msg1007226
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2012, 09:38:55 pm »
@The original idea: Since it's such a situational card, could it be balanced with a cost of just 1 :gravity (both unupped and upped)?

@The idea of debuffing attack: Should a spell have two effects? Why not just have one or the other? Is having a card that removes a few attack points worth using? Is a card that removes a LOT of attack points worth it, since at that point you could have just killed the creature in question?
There's been a good chunk of ideas and concerns thrown around. One of the biggest concerns is that lobotomizing is cheap, so a card that raises skill cost seems ineffective compared to lobos unless you add something to it.

The idea now is that Heavy Load weighs down multiple aspects of a creature, making it a bit more all-around. If stacked, it could actually be more effective than a lobo.
The general feel for the card really is just 'weighing down' (or turning a creature into a 'dead weight,' if you will). It also, nicely enough, makes most creatures nigh-useless without triggering death.

I'm still deliberating on how the attack debuff works if it's put in. It's either going to drain 1 attack from the creature every turn, or just a set amount at once, maybe 4 or 5.
Draining is slower but could ultimately ruin high-attack creatures if they're not supplied with attack buffs. I guess the main thing is if that's OP. Any thoughts?

But yeah, if we're not doing attack debuffs then maybe just a cost 1 card would run best.

Offline Elbirn

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007228#msg1007228
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2012, 09:47:01 pm »
I think that a permanent attack decrease makes more sense thematically than an attack drain. Chaining a monster down would make it less combat effective, but wouldn't cause it to constantly get weaker.

...Unless it stayed still for a long time and it's muscles atrophied. But that'd take weeks. And certainly wouldn't be a practical combat tactic. :P
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Offline choongmyoung

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Re: Heavy Load | Dead Weight https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44023.msg1007244#msg1007244
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2012, 11:16:07 pm »
"Burrow Target Creature for X turns" for damage reducing will work?
Circular Logic is true. Thus, Circular Logic is true.

 

anything
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