Guinea Pig | Guinea Pig

[thekillergames]

this will be a nice addition in my fracbow.

[moomoose]

im thinking about maybe changing it to from , to mesh with elf a bit?

[SnoWeb]

This is way better than fate egg (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29498.0.html) for cheaper.

card	Ginea Pig	Fate egg
cost	1	3
ability	1	1
stats	1|1	0|1
creature	mutant	normal

[moomoose]

ive thought about that, but fate egg is mono , which accounts for something. neither is guaranteed to give you anything useful, guinea pig itself could die in the base version, or essentially just be a werewolf and go from 1|1 to 5|5.  i think that the upped does have an edge over fate egg, but i dont think its so overwhelming to be a concern.

[Pineapple]

I think the upped should, if its stats stayed at 1|1, have a card or ability cost increase. Since you're increasing its attack and defense by 1, you might as well do both--making it 2 and 2:entropy . But seriously, the upped ability is way better than the unupped ability (2 Mutation vs. 3 Improved Mutation); it shouldn't cost the same and get an attack increase.

[moomoose]

considering its only 2 attack compared to 1 attack, its really trivial, nobody is using it for its base attack, its just going to be 1 extra damage for the one turn it is a guinea pig before it gets mutated, its for show essentially.

[Pineapple]

But it definitely shouldn't cost the same. o_o
Damselfly moves up from 1|1 to 2|1 with a -1 cost.
Improved Mutation moves up from "chance-of-abomination/dying" to "always-mutant" with a +1 cost increase. That means that, even with the -2 from upgrading, Improved Mutation increases its cost by 1, so the effect "always-mutant" costs a 3 more than "chance-of-abomination/dying"

Or, look at it this way:
photon + mutation is 2 , unupped Guinea Pig costs 1 1 .
Ray of Light + Improved Mutation is 3 , upped Guinea Pig should cost 1 and 2 .

[moomoose]

difference is mutation is more flexible and can be applied the same turn that a creature is put into play, guinea pig has a delay and can be lobo'd or killed rather easily before mutating

[Pineapple]

But there is no difference between the delay of mutation and improved mutation, nor a difference between the delay of unupped guinea pig and upped guinea pig.
I'm comparing the unupped and upped versions, using the Mutation cards as a base for evaluating the cost of the ability. If the only thing that changed was the ability, then upped guinea pig's ability should cost 1 more than unupped guinea pig's ability.

[moomoose]

you misunderstood me, i was comparing the spells with the built in effects.

[Arum]

Ok, Patch, remember earlier he said that it is the effects of Mutation/Improved Mutation, so what you said about it not dieing is wrong, very wrong.

I think it fits the elements it's in nicely, and a 2/2 for 1 isn't off for costing (see elite deja vu, micro abomination, phrysalia) .  Does the upped one have no chance of dying?

right, the effects are the same as mutation | improved mutation spells/abilities

[Pineapple]

Ok, Patch, remember earlier he said that it is the effects of Mutation/Improved Mutation, so what you said about it not dieing is wrong, very wrong.

I think it fits the elements it's in nicely, and a 2/2 for 1 isn't off for costing (see elite deja vu, micro abomination, phrysalia) .  Does the upped one have no chance of dying?

right, the effects are the same as mutation | improved mutation spells/abilities

Yeah, I balanced it to mutation | improved mutation: unupped's effect is chance-of-abomination/dying, upped's effect is always-mutant

you misunderstood me, i was comparing the spells with the built in effects.

Even if you do that, the ability of unupped guinea pig is 1 less of mutation, and the difference between the spell card and guinea pig's ability is built into the cost of unupped guinea pig, right? so the ability of upped guinea pig should also cost 1 less of its spell card, improved mutation, assuming everything else about the cards are the same.