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Offline SnoWebTopic starter

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Flame | Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg295873#msg295873
« on: March 22, 2011, 10:14:03 am »
NAME:
Flame
ELEMENT:
Fire
COST:
2 :fire
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2|1
TEXT:
Burn: When in hand, inflicts 1
damage to its owner.
Spread: When in play, generates
a new Flame each turn.
NAME:
Flame
ELEMENT:
Fire
COST:
2 :fire
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
3|1
TEXT:
Burn: When in hand, inflicts 1
damage to its owner.
Spread: When in play, generates
a new Flame each turn.
ART:
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1189020
IDEA:
SnoWeb
NOTES:
This is a stand alone fire version of malignant cell. It also has a nice synergy with Nightmare.
"Burn" is a passive ability and cannot be lobotomised whereas "Spread" is active (but passively triggered) and can.
Both "Burn" and "Spread" are passively triggered at the end of each turn (of the owner of the card).
SERIES:
Invasive creature series (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23363.0.html)


Re: Flame|Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg295875#msg295875
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 10:21:08 am »
so... u will get damaged by using fractal, but insane damage to ur opponent
and u can also use nightmare
correct?

Offline SnoWebTopic starter

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Re: Flame|Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg295878#msg295878
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 10:33:40 am »
so... u will get damaged by using fractal, but insane damage to ur opponent
and u can also use nightmare
correct?
If you use fractal you can play the card before the end of your turn. Then you wont be damaged. That's is were I have a problem indeed. In this form it is clearly OP. You could spam it and create a huge incendiary for very low cost. I don't want a high cost card so I look for a good idea to forbid fractal. What do you think of my 5-N idea?

And yes, it is made to synergize with nightmare.

Offline Nepycros

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Re: Flame|Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg295914#msg295914
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 12:36:22 pm »
EDIT: I fail.
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

Why, yes. I do have a Mindgate necklace. It's how I ninja everyone.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Flame|Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg295946#msg295946
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 01:32:01 pm »
having the hp decrease by N doesn't feel right.
However N^2 is a problem with Fractal.

Try something that falls between N and N^2 for N creatures.
I tried Ambush which created +(N^2-N)/2 for N creatures.

If you double burn's damage it would act like N^2-2N which would probably be balanced with Fractal.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
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Offline SnoWebTopic starter

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Re: Flame|Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg295952#msg295952
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 01:45:02 pm »
I am not totally sure how I could word this in a simple manner. The thing is that fractal escape the damaged cause by burn as it is only the flame(s) in your hand at the end of your turn which will damage you.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Flame|Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg295959#msg295959
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 02:13:59 pm »
I am not totally sure how I could word this in a simple manner. The thing is that fractal escape the damaged cause by burn as it is only the flame(s) in your hand at the end of your turn which will damage you.
Oh i missed that. You could change it to hand or field?
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
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Offline SnoWebTopic starter

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Re: Flame|Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg295974#msg295974
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 02:29:04 pm »
having the hp decrease by N doesn't feel right.
Why don't you like the Idea. It seems to me that the fire is getting exponentially intense till it doesn't have anything to feed on and dies.

Oh i missed that. You could change it to hand or field?
I don't like it so much. Too me it was more the fact that you couldn't keep the flames in your hand because you would burn yourself. The idea was to develop a :fire / :darkness synergy through nightmare.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Flame|Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg296066#msg296066
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2011, 06:38:04 pm »
having the hp decrease by N doesn't feel right.
Why don't you like the Idea. It seems to me that the fire is getting exponentially intense till it doesn't have anything to feed on and dies.

Oh i missed that. You could change it to hand or field?
I don't like it so much. Too me it was more the fact that you couldn't keep the flames in your hand because you would burn yourself. The idea was to develop a :fire / :darkness synergy through nightmare.
Why do I not like N|c-N? Mechanically this is an obvious shortcut out of the fractal problem that does not need to happen. The main problem is that c-N is fairly complex and when possible keep it simple. Each additional Flame brings more fuel so I would not expect it to start to die out especially at the ETG level of abstraction.

If a fire is hot enough that the mere concept of it hurts your head then what do you think it will do when you create it?

It now seems like you are trying to have two cards in one. [N^2 damage and Burn the Hand]
This is typically discouraged because it disadvantages the superior idea.

However if you want to do both ideas I would strongly suggest Burn deal 1 damage per card in the hand or on the field. This would make it so that 2 flames on the field + 6 in there hand would deal 6+2x2=10 damage to them and 2 damage to you. It might still be powerful enough to cost 3 :fire with this modification. The self inflicted damage will balance fractal for you.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
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Re: Flame|Flame https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg296096#msg296096
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2011, 07:48:29 pm »
anti-fractal abuse:
when added to hand besides drawing, receive 2N damage (N being how many is added)

Offline SnoWebTopic starter

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Re: Flame|Flame (remake) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg296506#msg296506
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 07:25:58 am »
It now seems like you are trying to have two cards in one. [N^2 damage and Burn the Hand]
You are right, I was trying to have a flame-like behaviour and to have a synergy with nightmare (card that I think miss creature to work with). The N^2 mechanic probably needs a card for itself so I dropped it. I rethought the damage part and made a try with a malignant-like mechanic. The card isn't free but still very weak (1 HP). However, it inflicts more damage just to make it a bit spicier. What do you guys think?

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Flame|Flame (remake) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23276.msg296509#msg296509
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 07:46:52 am »
I prefer this new version.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
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blarg: