Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Level 2 - Forge => Card Ideas and Art => Forge Archive => Topic started by: OdinVanguard on February 07, 2013, 06:32:19 pm

Title: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 07, 2013, 06:32:19 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/wQLPCam.png)	(http://i.imgur.com/73DNlCQ.png)
NAME: Dream Eater ELEMENT: Null (Darkness / Aether) COST: 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/NullMark.png) TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 5|1 TEXT: Destroys the top card of owner's deck and gains +1|+0 after each successful attack. Discard all cards if discarded	NAME: Greater Dream Eater ELEMENT: Null (Darkness / Aether) COST: 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/NullMark.png) TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 8|1 TEXT: Destroys the top card of owner's deck and gains +1|+0 after each successful attack. Discard all cards if discarded

ART: Card Image Art by OdinVanguard See Emerald Tiger's Post for custom mark and background art: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,46114.0.html IDEA: OdinVanguard NOTES: If anyone has a link to the symbol size Null mark, let me know so I can use it here. I can only seem to find the large Mark size image. The idea behind this card was to have a powerful rush creature that has a built in downside. Null seemed to make a nice vehicle for this. Having a card that destroy's its owner's deck in exchange for a powerful offense seemed like a nice way to do it. This concept seemed to me to be a perfect fit under the "Null" hybrid element theme. It combines thematic traits of both darkness and aether, so while it could work as a pair of cards, or even as a single card under either one, it really fits best as a hybrid. See http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35493.12.html for a discussion on elemental and hybrid element themes (if anyone has a better link please post it) Thematically, the idea is that the creatures negative energy is so strong that it rips apart the mind of its owner. Its essence is so potent that in order to cleanse it from your mind, you would have to clear all other thoughts as well. The discard mechanic serves 3 functions: 1) Helps further promote the "Null" theme 2) Makes fractal abuse more difficult 3) Gives synergy with nightmare The deck destruction ability is a passive trait (like salvage) so it cannot be lobotomized. I had originally wanted it to destroy both decks, but that seemed a little too OP. -Special thanks to EmeraldTiger and all those who have and are contributing to the hybrid element project. You guys ROCK! SERIES:

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: russianspy1234 on February 07, 2013, 06:39:40 pm

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/NullMark.png)

use quote to see the code, copying the image wont work.

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: choongmyoung on February 07, 2013, 06:40:01 pm

I think this is way too UP. Destroy a card per turn? meh.

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: Higurashi on February 07, 2013, 06:45:23 pm

Holy crap, that's powerful. I don't even WANT to imagine this with drawing power and actual Towers, not to mention Steal support. *shudders*
This'd become a pretty damn dominant rush, both unupped and upped.

Strange that it would eat YOUR dreams though. Usually when you summon something like this, it's to eat your foes' x)
But I can see how it fits with the element Null. 'Tis dangerous to gamble with such forces.

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 07, 2013, 07:10:04 pm

Quote from: russianspy1234 on February 07, 2013, 06:39:40 pm

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/NullMark.png)

use quote to see the code, copying the image wont work.

Awesome! Thanks.

Quote from: choongmyoung on February 07, 2013, 06:40:01 pm

I think this is way too UP. Destroy a card per turn? meh.

Yes, but its a 5 attack creature for 2 quanta!

Also, consider the nightmare synergy... especially with GoTP... granted thats a trio, but if it weren't it would be OP.

Quote from: Higurashi on February 07, 2013, 06:45:23 pm

Holy crap, that's powerful. I don't even WANT to imagine this with drawing power and actual Towers, not to mention Steal support. *shudders*
This'd become a pretty damn dominant rush, both unupped and upped.

Strange that it would eat YOUR dreams though. Usually when you summon something like this, it's to eat your foes' x)
But I can see how it fits with the element Null. 'Tis dangerous to gamble with such forces.

Very true... but if you put more than one or two of these in play and your deck is toast.

With just 1 of these in play from start, you would burn through 20 cards by turn 6... compare that to standard drawing which would only use 14 cards by then.

And I believe sanctuary won't help since it eats your deck, not your hand...
If opponent has an SoBr style deck, you could be in pretty bad trouble

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: Chapuz on February 07, 2013, 07:15:52 pm

Decking out 101

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: choongmyoung on February 07, 2013, 07:22:58 pm

Quote from: OdinVanguard on February 07, 2013, 07:10:04 pm

Quote from: choongmyoung on February 07, 2013, 06:40:01 pm

I think this is way too UP. Destroy a card per turn? meh.

Yes, but its a 5 attack creature for 2 quanta!

Also, consider the nightmare synergy... especially with GoTP... granted thats a trio, but if it weren't it would be OP.

No, this doesn't have synergy with GotP Nightmare. If your opponent's hand is full of GotPs and Dream Eaters, he will discard GotP just as same as if they were all GotPs.
This has synergy with Nightmare but not GotP Nightmare.

Also 5|8 attack creature for 2 quanta is not bad, but it has anti-synergy with Fractal or Mitosis or even many copies itself.
My think? Just make it bigger like 12|15 ATK for 6 quanta or something like that.

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: Rutarete on February 07, 2013, 09:33:55 pm

This is cool AND powerful! Cool art, mechanic, everything! :)

Can the dream eating be lobotomized?

I suppose it fits with the theme that you can't see what card is destroyed.

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: Higurashi on February 07, 2013, 10:17:38 pm

Yes, unupped this is scary to use because 5 attack isn't huge, just good. Upped though, being down to 10 cards left after 6 turns doesn't matter one bit, because you'll be aiming to win in 4 :P
With the low HP, this is already a high-risk strategy anyway. It'd be a whole new level of glass cannon, but it's not combo-based, so that helps. Very exciting card.

@choong: it's supposed to discourage Fractal use because it'd be really OP if there wasn't a big drawback. Your suggestion makes it exciting in another way though: it doesn't put you in as much of a hyper-rush situation, but it's still really vicious and more dangerous too. Basically you're buffing it.

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 07, 2013, 11:58:16 pm

Quote from: Higurashi on February 07, 2013, 10:17:38 pm

Yes, unupped this is scary to use because 5 attack isn't huge, just good. Upped though, being down to 10 cards left after 6 turns doesn't matter one bit, because you'll be aiming to win in 4 :P
With the low HP, this is already a high-risk strategy anyway. It'd be a whole new level of glass cannon, but it's not combo-based, so that helps. Very exciting card.

@choong: it's supposed to discourage Fractal use because it'd be really OP if there wasn't a big drawback. Your suggestion makes it exciting in another way though: it doesn't put you in as much of a hyper-rush situation, but it's still really vicious and more dangerous too. Basically you're buffing it.

Good point on the upped version. It would take 3 to 4 to kill in 4 to 5 rounds... With 3 you would do 8*3*4 = 96 damage in 4 turns... You would also burn through 8 + 4 + 3*4 = 24 cards ... That would give you a margin of 2 more turns to kill before deckout...
Powerfully fast indeed, but shields, sundials and CC would all put a big wrench in the plan....

So with that, what does everyone think as far as balance is concerned? Is it good to go or does it need some tweaking?

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: Higurashi on February 08, 2013, 12:35:16 am

Well, you'd do quite a bit more since they grow in damage.. and you'll play other stuff too, but there's the risk of discarding your offence thanks to Dream Eaters attacking. That's why draw power actually works with these as you draw until you have them. This makes it a really hyper kind of rush where no game will last long. That's why they're so exciting. I'd love to have them in game for fun and for testing their balance.

I imagine, in a deck focused on these, I could pack 6 Steals because I'll discard several of them, which deals with defences you mention. The only good defence against a hyper rush has always been CC, so it's good that these don't have much HP.

I actually see these best used in Nova/Immo decks, providing extremely cheap high offence. Imagine 3 of 'em in a Grabbow.. ick. But then, they're Null, so that won't happen I guess.

Title: Re: Dream Eater | Greater Dream Eater
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 08, 2013, 01:15:08 am

Quote from: Higurashi on February 08, 2013, 12:35:16 am

Well, you'd do quite a bit more since they grow in damage.. and you'll play other stuff too, but there's the risk of discarding your offence thanks to Dream Eaters attacking. That's why draw power actually works with these as you draw until you have them. This makes it a really hyper kind of rush where no game will last long. That's why they're so exciting. I'd love to have them in game for fun and for testing their balance.

I imagine, in a deck focused on these, I could pack 6 Steals because I'll discard several of them, which deals with defences you mention. The only good defence against a hyper rush has always been CC, so it's good that these don't have much HP.

I actually see these best used in Nova/Immo decks, providing extremely cheap high offence. Imagine 3 of 'em in a Grabbow.. ick. But then, they're Null, so that won't happen I guess.

Ah, good point on the damage ramp-up... thats 4* 4*(5)/2 = 40 extra damage... so 3 of them would deal 136 damage over 4 turns.

I see the point on using steal… that would be a very potent combo. Dials would still prove a problem. AM and Voodoo-GP may also work, but other than that I think CC is the only other option.

Is this too powerful or about right?

...On a tangent, RT makes an amusing counter to this card. Psychic cannibalism anyone? XD