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Elements the Game => Level 2 - Forge => Card Ideas and Art => Forge Archive => Topic started by: andretimpa on April 15, 2013, 12:57:47 pm

Title: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: andretimpa on April 15, 2013, 12:57:47 pm
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7229007/etg%20cards/chr_aberration.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7229007/etg%20cards/chr_aberration_upp.png)
NAME:
Chromatic Aberration
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
3 :entropy
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Creature skills cost mark quanta for 2 turns.
NAME:
Chromatic Aberration
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
2 :entropy
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Creature skills cost mark quanta for 2 turns.

ART:
andretimpa
IDEA:
andretimpa
NOTES:
The main idea here is to facilitate synergies between elements.
I'm not 100% sure if the duration is good, or how to balance this, so I'd like to hear how you would use it. If you don't think it is interesting, what changes would make you change your mind?

Possible modifications I thought:
-Make the skill cost fused ( :underworld instead of mark quanta)
-Make this a permanent

(it was partially inspired by Monochrome Lens | Monochrome Lens (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,47366.msg1047429.html#msg1047429), but I think it is way less abusable)

Card idea of the month (May/2013) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,47144.0.html
SERIES:


(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7229007/etg%20cards/aberration.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7229007/etg%20cards/aberration_upp.png)
NAME:
Chromatic Aberration
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
5
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Creature skills cost mark quanta for 2 turns.
NAME:
Chromatic Aberration
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
3
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Creature skills cost mark quanta for 2 turns.

ART:
andretimpa (underworld mark by ?)
IDEA:
andretimpa
NOTES:

SERIES:



Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: iancudorinmarian on April 15, 2013, 01:28:42 pm
I was expecting an entropy card that changes all creatures' element and/or ability cost in a random one. (think about it, it might be better)

About the card: I don't really like the idea of letting you play a mono, that's why SoR was changed to time element (I think).
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OldTrees on April 15, 2013, 02:40:48 pm
I would use it in a mono water deck.
I suspect something like this should be tied to an element because the effect seems too special to be a generic effect. Unfortunately this reduces it ability to do your intended goal. (Reduces not eliminates)
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: avantasia666 on April 15, 2013, 03:32:34 pm
I would use it in a mono water deck.
I suspect something like this should be tied to an element because the effect seems too special to be a generic effect. Unfortunately this reduces it ability to do your intended goal. (Reduces not eliminates)

That was my first idea,too. This would open a new kind of semi-rainbow. Monodeck with splashed in monsters from another element seems pretty cool.
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: andretimpa on April 15, 2013, 03:56:11 pm
I was expecting an entropy card that changes all creatures' element and/or ability cost in a random one. (think about it, it might be better)

I think the main use for this effect would be trolling your opponent. Might not be a bad idea indeed, it would be kinda like a mass lobo that is ineffective against rainbows (I feel it would need a duration to keep it from being too strong)

About the card: I don't really like the idea of letting you play a mono, that's why SoR was changed to time element (I think).

This is the main reason why the effect has a duration (the costs themselves would remain the same, but you would be using your mark to fuel it. After 2 turns all returns to normal)

I would use it in a mono water deck.
I suspect something like this should be tied to an element because the effect seems too special to be a generic effect. Unfortunately this reduces it ability to do your intended goal. (Reduces not eliminates)

Well, from a thematic point of view I think it fits :entropy, but in most cases a supernova would fit the bill.

That was my first idea,too. This would open a new kind of semi-rainbow. Monodeck with splashed in monsters from another element seems pretty cool.

Only the skills are paid of mark. Drake's original idea was doing fused costs (random element, but not random quanta) for creatures and for cards played by hand.

I think I'm approaching this the wrong way. I'll probably keep this name and art but do something completely different (using iancudorinmarian's idea as a starting point) and think of another way to make synergies easier to use.
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 15, 2013, 04:09:27 pm
I think :water , :entropy , and perhaps :light would make the best candidates if you move it into an element.

I don't think light would get a lot of utility out of it, but it makes thematic sense.

Water and entropy would definitely get very good usage out of it.

Water has a lot of creatures that could benefit from it.

Entropy would also love to have this so it could make use of fallen druid and improved mutation without needing quantum pillars.

For an interesting twist, you could add the lines "Casting cost must be paid with mark quanta."

If you can think of a good name for that, it could open up a sort of "pseudo-quanta". I.e. type other cards that use whatever quanta your mark is...
That could open up some very interesting design avenues.
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: avantasia666 on April 15, 2013, 04:23:18 pm
That was my first idea,too. This would open a new kind of semi-rainbow. Monodeck with splashed in monsters from another element seems pretty cool.

Only the skills are paid of mark. Drake's original idea was doing fused costs (random element, but not random quanta) for creatures and for cards played by hand.

It seems I lost my reading skills for a moment xD Or I was brain afk. Forget what I said.

Nevertheless I like the card. Some Elements would benefit more then others. I will think some more about it before posting stupid things again. =P
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OldTrees on April 15, 2013, 08:41:53 pm
I think I'm approaching this the wrong way. I'll probably keep this name and art but do something completely different (using iancudorinmarian's idea as a starting point) and think of another way to make synergies easier to use.
I think this idea has potential. It would be sad to discard it.
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: andretimpa on April 16, 2013, 12:41:33 am
card updated

I think I'm approaching this the wrong way. I'll probably keep this name and art but do something completely different (using iancudorinmarian's idea as a starting point) and think of another way to make synergies easier to use.
I think this idea has potential. It would be sad to discard it.

Yeah, I'll go with changing it to a :entropy card and borrow ian's idea in another card. I don't know if the duration is UP due to the possibility of using a Supernova instead.

Entropy would also love to have this so it could make use of fallen druid and improved mutation without needing quantum pillars.

hadn't thought about that. It can make egg decks easier to work (requiring a duo instead of a kinda-rainbow or reliant in SoR)

For an interesting twist, you could add the lines "Casting cost must be paid with mark quanta."

If you can think of a good name for that, it could open up a sort of "pseudo-quanta". I.e. type other cards that use whatever quanta your mark is...
That could open up some very interesting design avenues.

I'm actually surprised this has not been done before. I think 'mark' is as good a name as any other for this pseudo-quanta (and it's easy to understand). Maybe we could use an empty mark to symbolize it?
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 16, 2013, 12:42:27 am
I agree with OldTrees, this is a very nice concept.

I think this could be one of the most useful type Other cards in the game, next to quantum pillars.

Even an element specific card, it would still be quite useful. Particularly under water or entropy which very often find themselves in need of off element quanta to power creature skills.



Yeah, I'll go with changing it to a :entropy card and borrow ian's idea in another card. I don't know if the duration is UP due to the possibility of using a Supernova instead.

Entropy would also love to have this so it could make use of fallen druid and improved mutation without needing quantum pillars.

hadn't thought about that. It can make egg decks easier to work (requiring a duo instead of a kinda-rainbow or reliant in SoR)

For an interesting twist, you could add the lines "Casting cost must be paid with mark quanta."

If you can think of a good name for that, it could open up a sort of "pseudo-quanta". I.e. type other cards that use whatever quanta your mark is...
That could open up some very interesting design avenues.

I'm actually surprised this has not been done before. I think 'mark' is as good a name as any other for this pseudo-quanta (and it's easy to understand). Maybe we could use an empty mark to symbolize it?

I would actually really love to get my hands on a card like this one to put into an Egg / Improved Mutation deck. It would free up SoR for use with Egg and might help make the deck a good deal more useful.

A symbol to used to represent mark quanta in card design would be very useful I think... Maybe something like rainbow, but with an M inside?
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: andretimpa on April 16, 2013, 01:38:02 am
I agree with OldTrees, this is a very nice concept.

I think this could be one of the most useful type Other cards in the game, next to quantum pillars.

Even an element specific card, it would still be quite useful. Particularly under water or entropy which very often find themselves in need of off element quanta to power creature skills.

I would actually really love to get my hands on a card like this one to put into an Egg / Improved Mutation deck. It would free up SoR for use with Egg and might help make the deck a good deal more useful.

I went with an in element cost, because I felt it gave too much power to monos, but that it would be alright in a duo. I chose :entropy because of its traditional connection to rainbows. As you said it still would have plenty of uses.

A symbol to used to represent mark quanta in card design would be very useful I think... Maybe something like rainbow, but with an M inside?

I think it would be too similar to  :rainbow (I actually barely notice the void sign in it)
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 16, 2013, 01:45:11 am
I agree with OldTrees, this is a very nice concept.

I think this could be one of the most useful type Other cards in the game, next to quantum pillars.

Even an element specific card, it would still be quite useful. Particularly under water or entropy which very often find themselves in need of off element quanta to power creature skills.

I would actually really love to get my hands on a card like this one to put into an Egg / Improved Mutation deck. It would free up SoR for use with Egg and might help make the deck a good deal more useful.

I went with an in element cost, because I felt it gave too much power to monos, but that it would be alright in a duo. I chose :entropy because of its traditional connection to rainbows. As you said it still would have plenty of uses.

A symbol to used to represent mark quanta in card design would be very useful I think... Maybe something like rainbow, but with an M inside?

I think it would be too similar to  :rainbow (I actually barely notice the void sign in it)
This should work out pretty well I think, since :entropy will certainly see a lot of use from it due to their fallen druid and improved mutation spells.

I think you may be able to pull the cost down even a little more and it would still be ok. Its a 2 turn duration spell effect, so I think making it splashable off of a mark wouldn't be too OP.

By the way, I love the art on the card too!

I think its basically ready for the polls at this point. In my opinion at least.

I don't have many :entropy cards in crucible so I'll be sure to keep an eye out so I can give it my vote.
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OldTrees on April 16, 2013, 05:50:25 am
card updated

I think I'm approaching this the wrong way. I'll probably keep this name and art but do something completely different (using iancudorinmarian's idea as a starting point) and think of another way to make synergies easier to use.
I think this idea has potential. It would be sad to discard it.

Yeah, I'll go with changing it to a :entropy card and borrow ian's idea in another card. I don't know if the duration is UP due to the possibility of using a Supernova instead.

For an interesting twist, you could add the lines "Casting cost must be paid with mark quanta."

If you can think of a good name for that, it could open up a sort of "pseudo-quanta". I.e. type other cards that use whatever quanta your mark is...
That could open up some very interesting design avenues.

I'm actually surprised this has not been done before. I think 'mark' is as good a name as any other for this pseudo-quanta (and it's easy to understand). Maybe we could use an empty mark to symbolize it?
Since Entropy has Nova to support its rainbowlike cards, why not choose Water to support its rainbowlike cards?

Mark quanta is a very clear descriptive name that has been firmly established on the forum. In general spelling mark quanta out is better but an empty mark would be a good symbol. Although the empty mark is also a good symbol for fused. (Who should I credit for the name fused? It is a good descriptor for that other pseudoquanta.)
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: blarp on April 16, 2013, 06:04:57 am
I only see this being used in a few OP situations. I can't think of what those situations are, but I'm sure they exist. I also can't think of a deck that takes advantage of this.

So while an interesting idea, definitely needs some testing to really bring out the core of what this idea will do. Or you can do a really good job explaining how it could be used and not abused.
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 16, 2013, 06:24:55 am
Mark quanta is a very clear descriptive name that has been firmly established on the forum. In general spelling mark quanta out is better but an empty mark would be a good symbol. Although the empty mark is also a good symbol for fused. (Who should I credit for the name fused? It is a good descriptor for that other pseudoquanta.)
I believe credit for coining "Fused" goes to Drake_XIV.

I only see this being used in a few OP situations. I can't think of what those situations are, but I'm sure they exist. I also can't think of a deck that takes advantage of this.

So while an interesting idea, definitely needs some testing to really bring out the core of what this idea will do. Or you can do a really good job explaining how it could be used and not abused.
With a 2 turn duration, I think it really should be pretty safe.
I think the core of what it should do is pretty straight forward. It lets you build duo decks around having one or more creatures with useful skills that would other wise take an additional element to power.

I can think of one use right away... Chaos Wardens.

It would let you pull it off with a trio using earth pendulums and supernova to pull out spiders.
Then when / if the opponent plays an airborne creature, you cast this and use the spiders to pull it down, then kill it with the wardens.

Similar could be pulled off with water-earth duo if it is moved to water instead of entropy.

Entropy-Water duo "water bow" is another idea.

Fallen Deja-Vu could be another interesting idea.

Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OldTrees on April 16, 2013, 06:42:47 am
I only see this being used in a few OP situations. -snip-

So while an interesting idea, definitely needs some testing to really bring out the core of what this idea will do. Or you can do a really good job explaining how it could be used and not abused.
Why do you see it being used in a few OP situations?

Obviously playtesting should happen (it is a card suggestion afterall)

Duo creatures (ones with activation costs of a different element from the casting cost) are though to tend to have a casting cost 1 elemental quanta less than theoretical Mono creatures with the same ability. This card temporarily converts Duo creatures into Mono creatures (or usable Duo creatures). It has a casting cost to try to pay for this benefit. There is the question about whether or not the cost is correct but I think we can easily see the structure is fine.

However there is another layer deeper that we should evaluate on the theoretical level to inform our playtesting. Are there any problematic combinations between duo abilities?
:light Dive
 :darkness Burrow, Infection, Stone Form
 :air Firefly
 :earth Evolve, Shatter
 :earth Shard activated abilities
 :gravity Ablaze
 :entropy Lycanthrope, Mutation
 :entropy Mutants
 :fire Growth, Divine Shield
 :water Poison, Inflate, Psionic Wave, Steam, Tsunami
 :water Nymphs
 :life Photosynthesis (would be errata'd to 1 activation per turn see SoR precedent), Growth
 :death Web
 :aether Web
 :time Immortality, Devour
From this I see no problems but I would double check
Entropy version of Chromatic Aberration in a Mutation deck
Water version of Chromatic Aberration in a Nymph Tear deck
Water version of Chromatic Aberration in a Water creature/Posidon bow deck
Earth version of Chromatic Aberration in a Shard deck
Neat features discovered: Firefly Queen, Flying Pulverizer, Anubis, Pharoah/Scarabs
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 16, 2013, 06:49:31 am
The only combos I can see from looking over the spoiler list are

:time devour combo... that could make for a very potent :time deck

Flying tsunami deck (if this is made into a water card) ... that would be a nightmare to deal with I think.
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: andretimpa on April 16, 2013, 02:09:51 pm
Out of the duo/abilities OldTrees mentioned I think the most troublesome would be nymph abilities and Steam machine (a mono- :water Steam machine deck IS pretty scary), so I think this might need rebalancing if it gets moved to :water. I see no problems however with using this in a mutation deck. As for supernova being in the same element I gave it some thought and I think this is a little more resilient against some forms of quanta control (BH mainly and by extension  :gravity-nymph and SoFo), while being weaker against others (if your opponent drops a discord it becomes a bad idea to play this and it turns into a dead card, occupying deck space, even if you can use your creature skills with the now scrambled quanta).

I am leaning towards keeping it in :entropy, but maybe I should put up a poll.

The nymph tears deck would still be possible, but slower (mark of entropy, water pendulums and pillars and quantum pillars), with the upside that you don't need to keep many QT to pay for nymph abilities and mitigating the high cost of nymph abilities. It also makes the deck more resistant against EQs.

Flying tsunami deck (if this is made into a water card) ... that would be a nightmare to deal with I think.

They laughed at trident, called it useless, it will have its revenge ...  :P
Title: Re: Chromatic Aberration | Chromatic Aberration
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 16, 2013, 04:06:48 pm
They laughed at trident, called it useless, it will have its revenge ...  :P
Lol... I've never laughed at it. Actually, I've often wondered why it isn't used more often, now that we have the warden SoPa combo.
blarg: Drake_XIV