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Elements the Game => Level 2 - Forge => Card Ideas and Art => Forge Archive => Topic started by: ZephyrPhantom on July 25, 2011, 12:16:54 am

Title: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on July 25, 2011, 12:16:54 am
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd215935/elements_AS2.png)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd215934/elements_ASE2.png)
NAME:
Astral Spirit
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
2  :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2 | 3
TEXT:
:aether : Propagation
Create an Astral Spirit in your hand.
NAME:
Astral Faerie
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
3  :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 3
TEXT:
:aether : Propagation
Create an Astral Faerie in your hand.
ART:
Thalas
IDEA:
Zblader
NOTES:
A different take on Aether's abilities of duplication.
SERIES:
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd214892/elements_AS.png)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd214891/elements_ASE.png)
NAME:
Astral Spirit
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
2  :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2 | 3
TEXT:
:aether :aether : Ionize
Create an Astral Spirit in your hand.
NAME:
Astral Faerie
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
2  :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 3
TEXT:
:aether :aether : Ionize
Create an Astral Faerie in your hand.
ART:
Thalas
IDEA:
Zblader
NOTES:
A different take on Aether's abilities of duplication.
SERIES:
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: Hyroen on July 25, 2011, 12:21:36 am
Art by Thakas might want to be fixed.

Aside, very interesting card. The skill's name is questionable. I like it though.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: Isei on July 25, 2011, 12:24:58 am
Great idea.  Costs may need to be increased slightly to balance it out, though.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on July 25, 2011, 12:30:44 am
Quote from: Hyroen on July 25, 2011, 12:21:36 am
Art by Thakas might want to be fixed.

Aside, very interesting card. The skill's name is questionable. I like it though.
I'll fix it after it is balanced/more changes happen. As for a name, I was trying to come up with something related to the creation of star, this was the best I could find searching around.

Quote from: Isei on July 25, 2011, 12:24:58 am
Great idea.  Costs may need to be increased slightly to balance it out, though.
By how much? I'll consider making the ability cost +1 more if it's too strong.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: ddevans96 on July 25, 2011, 12:32:15 am
mmm...I want to see OT's stats for this. On first glance, I'd rather fractal this than use it's ability, considering I'll probably have four towers by the time I fractal.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: Smurrf on July 25, 2011, 01:51:31 am
Get a couple of these out, and you can avoid loss by deckout in just a couple turns.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: Baily18 on July 25, 2011, 02:08:59 am
how do you avoid deckout using this card? i'm probably missing something here...
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: Smurrf on July 25, 2011, 02:13:13 am
No, I wasn't thinking very well.  You can load up to 8, but still have to discard at the end of the turn.  Don't mind me.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: Isei on July 25, 2011, 02:14:50 am
Quote from: Zblader on July 25, 2011, 12:30:44 am
By how much? I'll consider making the ability cost +1 more if it's too strong.
I was more thinking +1 to the cost of the creature, not the ability cost.  I don't really have any concrete reason for it, other than the fact that Aether already has one hyper-efficient creature (phase recluse), and doesn't need any more undercosted beaters.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: moomoose on July 25, 2011, 03:43:33 am
well, its card with a pseudo-mitosis already on it, at the expense of essentially having to pay for the card twice over (2 :aether to make the card, 2:aether to play the card).  ends up being a continuous stream of 4 atk creatures at a cost of 4 :aether from a single card.  it obviously ramps up quickly, if you are able to afford it's costs.  lets say you have 5 aether towers and your mark generating quanta to feed these guys for a naive simulation where no other towers/cards are drawn and you dont need/want to use the ability without playing the card immediately after:
turn 1: play 5 towers, gain 5 :aether play one fairie -2 :aether, end turn +6 :aether = 9 :aether banked, 4 damage done this turn
turn 2: produce fairie #2, play fairie 2, -4 :aether, end turn +6 aether =11 :aether banked, 8 damage this turn, 12 overall
turn 3: produce fairie #3 and #4, play fairie 3 and 4, -8 :aether, end turn +6 aether =9 :aether banked, 16 damage this turn, 28 overall
turn 4: produce fairie #5 and #6, play fairie 5 and 6, -8 :aether, end turn +6 aether =7 :aether banked, 24 damage this turn, 52 overall
turn 5: produce fairie #7, play fairie 7, -4 :aether, end turn +6 aether =9 :aether banked, 28 damage this turn, 80 overall
turn 6...

this seems pretty effective for 5 towers and 1 creature over 5 turns, even if youre not able to pay to play the full potential of the cards in the field. its not hard to imagine a tower heavy deck designed to feed the growth of these guys, it may not even need dim shields to hold off the opponent.  i suppose you could compare it slightly to ffq, but she is 7 :air and produces creatures with a duo ability, and those creatures do not have the same creature generating ability (in actuality it brings in a third element)

on a tiny detail, it may be a good idea to not use the word "spirit" in the name of the card unless its part of the spirit/spectre series, not that everyone adheres to this.  like i said, tiny detail.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: MatrimKK on July 25, 2011, 04:05:55 am
Z I think perhaps a lower defense would put it in line with cost?  Also this would fit better themantically imo
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: TuckingFypo on July 25, 2011, 08:48:17 pm
This is more like my intuition, but wouldn't it better to have the upgraded version have 3 attack instead of 4?  Considering the duplicating abilities, a jump from 2 to 4 seems pretty big.

Also, how does "Propagation" sound for the skill name?
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: MatrimKK on July 25, 2011, 09:20:46 pm
I don't have a problem with the attack tbh, for something that is pure card advantage profit, I think it should have less hp.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: OldTrees on July 29, 2011, 02:35:01 pm
Casting Cost: 2 :aether|3 :aether
Activation Cost:  :aether| :aether
Primary Cost: 1 draw + Casting Cost
Secondary Cost: 2 :aether + Casting Cost
Replacing the Draw cost is typically only worth 1 extra quanta
Conclusion: Activation Cost should be  :aether.

Comparison to Growth
Unupped
2 [Attack] +0 [0>hp>6] +2 [Growth] -X [Activation Cost = Y] = 4-X = Y
2 [Attack] +0 [0>hp>6] +2 [Growth] -1 [Activation Cost = 3] = 4-1 = 3 = 2 :aether +1card

Upped
4 [Attack] +0 [0>hp>6] +4 [Double Growth] -X [Activation Cost = Y] -2 [Upgraded] = 6-X = Y
4 [Attack] +0 [0>hp>6] +4 [Double Growth] -2 [Activation Cost = 4] -2 [Upgraded] = 6-2 = 4 = 3 :aether+1card


Steam Machine: Gains +5 per turn but loses 1 per turn.
Firefly Queen: Gains +3 per turn
Lava Golem: Gains +2 per turn
Astral Spirit: Doubles every turn, quanta permitting. However quanta tends to not permit 68 quanta in 6 turns. So I will include a reduced speed version that is limited to 5 quanta gained per turn instead.

Column 2&3: Lava Golem (cost is  :fire + :earth + 1 [my constant used to equalize duo quanta costs])
Column 4&5: Firefly Queen (cost is  :air + :life + 1)
Column 6&7: Steam Machine: (cost is  :water + :fire + 1)
Column 8&9: Astral Spirit (limited to 5 quanta produced per turn)

Unupped
TurnDamageCostDamageCostDamageCostDamageCost
0100505003070000400202
0201207009100050700605
0302108018120140901411
0403209030140271102820
0504510045160441304423
0606011063180651506429
0707712084200901708835
0809613108221191911438
0911714135241522114444
1014015165261892317850
1116516198282302521453
121921723430XXXXXXXXXX
1322118XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
100 damage efficiency [Damage/Cost/Turns]
LG: 096/13/08=0.92
FFQ: 108/22/08=0.61
SM: 090/17/07=0.76
AS (5Towers): 88/35/07=0.36

200 damage efficiency [Damage/Cost/Turns]
LG: 192/17/12=0.94
FFQ: 198/28/11=0.64
SM: 189/23/10=0.82
AS (5Towers): 214/53/11=0.37

Upped
TurnDamageCostDamageCostDamageCostDamageCost
0100705003070000500403
0201607010100050801207
0302708021120141002815
0404009036140271204819
0505510055160441407223
0607211078180651610027
0709112105200901813635
0811213136221192017639
0913514171241522222043
10180152102618924XXXXX
1120716XXXXX23026XXXXX
100 damage efficiency [Damage/Cost/Turns]
LG: 091/12/07=1.08
FFQ: 105/20/07=0.75
SM: 090/18/07=0.71
AS (5Towers): 100/27/06=0.62

200 damage efficiency [Damage/Cost/Turns]
LG: 207/16/11=1.18
FFQ: 210/26/10=0.81
SM: 189/24/10=0.79
AS (5Towers): 220/43/10=0.51
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: thekillergames on July 29, 2011, 02:59:43 pm
Quote from: OldTrees on July 29, 2011, 02:35:01 pm
Casting Cost: 2 :aether|3 :aether
Activation Cost:  :aether| :aether
Primary Cost: 1 draw + Casting Cost
Secondary Cost: 2 :aether + Casting Cost
Replacing the Draw cost is typically only worth 1 extra quanta
Conclusion: Activation Cost should be  :aether.

Comparison to Growth
Unupped
2 [Attack] +0 [0>hp>6] +2 [Growth] -X [Activation Cost = Y] = 4-X = Y
2 [Attack] +0 [0>hp>6] +2 [Growth] -1 [Activation Cost = 3] = 4-1 = 3 = 2 :aether +1card

Upped
4 [Attack] +0 [0>hp>6] +4 [Double Growth] -X [Activation Cost = Y] -2 [Upgraded] = 6-X = Y
4 [Attack] +0 [0>hp>6] +4 [Double Growth] -2 [Activation Cost = 4] -2 [Upgraded] = 6-2 = 4 = 3 :aether+1card


Steam Machine: Gains +5 per turn but loses 1 per turn.
Firefly Queen: Gains +3 per turn
Lava Golem: Gains +2 per turn
Astral Spirit: Doubles every turn, quanta permitting. However quanta tends to not permit 68 quanta in 6 turns. So I will include a reduced speed version that is limited to 5 quanta gained per turn instead.

Column 2&3: Lava Golem (cost is  :fire + :earth + 1 [my constant used to equalize duo quanta costs])
Column 4&5: Firefly Queen (cost is  :air + :life + 1)
Column 6&7: Steam Machine: (cost is  :water + :fire + 1)
Column 8&9: Astral Spirit (limited to 5 quanta produced per turn)

Unupped
TurnDamageCostDamageCostDamageCostDamageCost
0100505003070000400202
0201207009100050700605
0302108018120140901411
0403209030140271102820
0504510045160441304423
0606011063180651506429
0707712084200901708835
0809613108221191911438
0911714135241522114444
1014015165261892317850
1116516198282302521453
121921723430XXXXXXXXXX
1322118XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
100 damage efficiency [Damage/Cost/Turns]
LG: 096/13/08=0.92
FFQ: 108/22/08=0.61
SM: 090/17/07=0.76
AS (5Towers): 88/35/07=0.36

200 damage efficiency [Damage/Cost/Turns]
LG: 192/17/12=0.94
FFQ: 198/28/11=0.64
SM: 189/23/10=0.82
AS (5Towers): 214/53/11=0.37

Upped
TurnDamageCostDamageCostDamageCostDamageCost
0100705003070000500403
0201607010100050801207
0302708021120141002815
0404009036140271204819
0505510055160441407223
0607211078180651610027
0709112105200901813635
0811213136221192017639
0913514171241522222043
10180152102618924XXXXX
1120716XXXXX23026XXXXX
100 damage efficiency [Damage/Cost/Turns]
LG: 091/12/07=1.08
FFQ: 105/20/07=0.75
SM: 090/18/07=0.71
AS (5Towers): 100/27/06=0.62

200 damage efficiency [Damage/Cost/Turns]
LG: 207/16/11=1.18
FFQ: 210/26/10=0.81
SM: 189/24/10=0.79
AS (5Towers): 220/43/10=0.51
How long did it take u to calculate that  :o :o
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: OldTrees on July 29, 2011, 03:09:18 pm
Quote from: thekillergames on July 29, 2011, 02:59:43 pm
Quote from: OldTrees on July 29, 2011, 02:35:01 pm
Casting Cost: 2 :aether|3 :aether
Activation Cost:  :aether| :aether
snipped
How long did it take u to calculate that  :o :o
15 minutes total? I reused 3/8th of the table from a previous post but both posts together took about 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on July 29, 2011, 05:33:21 pm
Quote from: TuckingFypo on July 25, 2011, 08:48:17 pm
Also, how does "Propagation" sound for the skill name?
I think it would fit better than Ionize, so I'll use it.
Quote from: OldTrees on July 29, 2011, 02:35:01 pm
Great help as always, Oldtrees, +rep and thanks!

Card updated and submitted for Crucible review.
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on August 05, 2011, 03:48:56 pm
Now in Crucible!
Title: Re: Astral Spirit | Astral Faerie
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on June 21, 2012, 06:46:41 pm
Thanks to everyone who voted this into the Forge! Keep up the support! :)
blarg: