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Elements the Game => Level 2 - Forge => Card Ideas and Art => Forge Archive => Topic started by: russianspy1234 on October 29, 2012, 04:33:01 pm

Title: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: russianspy1234 on October 29, 2012, 04:33:01 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/russianspy1234/ros/ancientwisdom.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/russianspy1234/ros/ancientwisdomu.png)
NAME:
Ancient Wisdom
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
4 :time
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
:aether :aether :Target creature deals spell damage for the next two turns.
NAME:
Ancient Wisdom
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
4 :time
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
:aether :aether :Target creature deals spell damage for the next three turns.

ART:
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1204250
IDEA:
russianspy1234
NOTES:

SERIES:

Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on October 29, 2012, 04:42:14 pm
Quote from: UndeadSpider
Interesting. At first glance I want to say that Momentum shames this, but then I think about those reflect shields and how this would be a major buff to them and might result in them being played a lot more often. With that in mind, I'm inclined to compare it to antimatter. It's almost unfairly cheaper, yet it has the interesting weakness of being a permanent.

Um, I like the puzzle you've given us! So far I'm thinking it's probably still too cheap. I'd happily put 5 of these in a deck, knowing that they could be used either on the enemy aginst my reflective shield, or on my own creatures in case they have a shield themselves. I'd be fairly confident I could suck their PC dry as long as these are so affordable.
Referring to the old version.
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: russianspy1234 on October 29, 2012, 05:02:40 pm
Hmmm i hadnt thought about momentum when making this, i was going off shard of wisdom. What if i added a "dropping" mechanic where if the creature is killed, this returns to your hand?
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on October 29, 2012, 11:37:38 pm
It seems natural to me that this would expire like a sundial if the creature is killed. I think it is its own weakness, if you intend to use it as momentum. It is more expensive, doesn't give a buff and comes with a risk that the opponent will pull a reflective shield.
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: choongmyoung on October 30, 2012, 12:02:00 am
Little complicated, but if you use this as momentum, it should cost equal or less then momentum, which means 1|2 cost is proper.
But if you use this as CC with Reflective Shield, it should cost more 'cause basically it's like antimatter.
Consider: you only need one shield, but you can't equip other shields.
So I think 4|3 cost is natural.

btw I don't see why this is in :time.
Adding "Ancient" in front of any random noun in order to make it in :time do not make a good theme.
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: furballdn on October 30, 2012, 03:36:05 am
Can you target something and then place a permanent? I am not sure if this is doable by the code.

How does this fit into :time?

If used as shield bypass, this is worth than momentum, and momentum is 2|1 cost with an additional +1/+1 stat boost without having harm of reflect

If this is used purely for defense this is situational and likely a forced combo.
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: russianspy1234 on October 30, 2012, 03:43:38 am
Little complicated, but if you use this as momentum, it should cost equal or less then momentum, which means 1|2 cost is proper.
But if you use this as CC with Reflective Shield, it should cost more 'cause basically it's like antimatter.
Consider: you only need one shield, but you can't equip other shields.
So I think 4|3 cost is natural.

btw I don't see why this is in :time.
Adding "Ancient" in front of any random noun in order to make it in :time do not make a good theme.

Her that's true, and I am guilty of having done that before...  With this though, my train of thought was that immortal creatures would likely be very old, and giving them this ability is done with shard of wisdom, so the magic to do so is likely almost lost to modern day elementals, and as such, doing so would be something "ancient" brought here via time travel.  not the best justification, but more than just a random reskin with the word ancient.

Can you target something and then place a permanent? I am not sure if this is doable by the code.

How does this fit into :time?

If used as shield bypass, this is worth than momentum, and momentum is 2|1 cost with an additional +1/+1 stat boost without having harm of reflect

If this is used purely for defense this is situational and likely a forced combo.

hmmm, that little thematic quirk might be more trouble than it's worth...
maybe i could make it give spell damage and a new skill?
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: furballdn on October 30, 2012, 04:22:28 am
Make sure that if you're designing something new whether or not it's effect is "Do X but also Y" or "Do X and Y"

Are you focusing on spell damage? Giving a new ability? Both? Which concept are you trying to make? Why?
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: russianspy1234 on October 30, 2012, 06:58:52 pm
Make sure that if you're designing something new whether or not it's effect is "Do X but also Y" or "Do X and Y"

Are you focusing on spell damage? Giving a new ability? Both? Which concept are you trying to make? Why?

well the concept is that its a really old magic book, filled with magic most elementals/creatures today havent seen, so it gives them access  to uniqueish spells.
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 30, 2012, 10:13:29 pm
Hmmm, I do like the added versatility this gives to reflect shields. I also like that it would promote more spell damage based mechanics in the future. The issue I see here is that it may still end up overshadowing the shard itself. Having permanent destruction end the effect is an interesting balancing method to balance it, though it might be a little hard to track. What about making it use an activated ability that provides one or two turns of spell damage buff?
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: russianspy1234 on October 30, 2012, 10:22:48 pm
Hmmm, I do like the added versatility this gives to reflect shields. I also like that it would promote more spell damage based mechanics in the future. The issue I see here is that it may still end up overshadowing the shard itself. Having permanent destruction end the effect is an interesting balancing method to balance it, though it might be a little hard to track. What about making it use an activated ability that provides one or two turns of spell damage buff?

interesting... removes some of the novelty but that's not a big deal.  i guess the activation cost would make most sense in :aether ?I worry a bit that it might make it too strong since it removes the weakness against reflect shields, but given the comparisson with momentum that shouldnt be a big deal.
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: moomoose on October 30, 2012, 11:04:06 pm
a few thoughts- zanz has probably already considered the idea, considering the shard is essentially the same thing with a few balancing changes.  also, spell damage creatures is in aethers domain. i would suggest altering the card to make it novel and including aether in some form, either in incorporating aether quanta or existing aether cards.
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: russianspy1234 on October 31, 2012, 01:14:22 am
card rehauled
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: furballdn on October 31, 2012, 05:23:47 am
Rehauled? You kept the same premise, just made it able to target more things and last 3 turns.

Offensively, this is way too slow and expensive to be worth it.

Defensively, it doesn't solve the problem of situationality, and I don't think it can even be effectively used based on the time and quanta you need.
Title: Re: Ancient Wisdom | Ancient Wisdom
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on October 31, 2012, 03:20:05 pm
Pretty wild change! I think I preferred the original, but let's see...

I can see pros and cons to this but on the whole I think it's more powerful. You can't use it on the first turn, but you can not only change your target but also choose two/three. I can see that getting pretty expensive at 2 :aether per use, I'm not sure if it should be cheaper.

Personally I think 'so what' if so far spell damage is an Aether thing. Growth is not limited to :life, nor Infect to :darkness. I don't think you should worry about the coding either: if Zanz really wanted to put this card in the game I'm sure he'd find a way. Nope still perfer the original! =P

With a card like this the 1-turn delay could be pretty upsetting. It could mean the difference between your creature getting burned/frozen by a shield, and it gives the opponent a short window to prepare for a reflective shield (as well as simply deflagration). Also I have generally never been a fan of Aether/Time together. Please show me a nice duo and I'll consider changing my mind. As I see it, they're pants and Anubis does little to make up for it.

Anyway rant done I think I said 1 or 2 useful things anyway! =P
blarg: