Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Level 2 - Forge => Card Ideas and Art => Forge Archive => Topic started by: Essence on May 12, 2010, 06:48:25 pm

Title: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Essence on May 12, 2010, 06:48:25 pm

Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd63390/Aleph_Mask.png) (http://imageplay.net/)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd63393/Gemini_Mask.png) (http://imageplay.net/)
NAME: Aleph Mask
ELEMENT: Aether
COST: 7 :aether
TYPE: Permanent (Artifact)
ATK|HP:
ABILITY: Each time you draw a card,
there is a 20% chance you will
create an identical card in your
hand if space allows.  Each
additional Aleph Mask you play
increases this chance by 5%.
NAME: Gemini Mask
ELEMENT: Aether
COST: 7 :aether
TYPE: Permanent (Artifact)
ATK|HP:
ABILITY: Each time you draw a card,
there is a 40% chance you will
create an identical card in your
hand if space allows.  Each
additional Gemini Mask you play
increases this chance by 5%.
ART: Hadley Danielson (Ess' Wife)
IDEA: Essence
NOTES: - For the Epic Contest.
- The Masks do stack with each other (Playing 2 Gemini Masks and 3 Aleph Masks gives you 86% chance to duplicate).   

Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Boingo on May 12, 2010, 07:08:16 pm
I'm not trying to be offensive or hurtful, and I know it's supposed to look like a mask....but the first impression I got from the card was some sort of bodice or fancy brassiere.  Maybe it's the lacy background....

The upped version is a bit too much of a deck expander.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Lordpants on May 12, 2010, 07:16:35 pm
Hmm I like the concept but how about lowering the percentages a little bit? (20 and 40?) to make it so you don't get a card every turn, because you can imagine the spam for a RoL/Hope deck or any fractal deck in general really...
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Essence on May 12, 2010, 09:34:11 pm
I don't understand how this is supposed to affect Fractal decks.  Fractal doens't make you draw a card, it just creates new cards in your hand.  Aleph Mask only affects cards you actually draw. 

Similarly, I don't know what "deck expander" means.  This card doesn't put more cards into your deck; you'll still draw out at the same rate.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Lordpants on May 12, 2010, 09:45:17 pm
You could end up drawing 2 fractals, or 2 of the said card you need to fractal, and having say 3 fractals in a deck, would and could net you six with the current numbers, so that you can use fractal more often.

Thats how I saw it anyway. Also something I didn't think of, drawing 2 towers could be OP when combined with Fire, I say could be because it adds 4 more on that turn then 2 extra each other, again doesn't seem like THAT big a deal but who knows.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: dragonhuman on May 12, 2010, 10:47:48 pm
I like the effect but it seems overpowered especially with fire bolts and the like, oh god the parellel universe

btw by spell it means spells only (fire bolt for example), I'm used to Magic (everything is considered a spell when being cast)

what if it only replicated creatures?
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: icybraker on May 12, 2010, 11:21:21 pm
Quote
Art by Ess' Wife
I LOL'D.

:) But it's good art. It is nothing LIKE a brassiere.

Very nice Aether card. It can augment a rush deck... but it's probably too expensive with that. I don't think it's OP.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on May 12, 2010, 11:30:10 pm
This could be deadly in a RoL + Hope deck.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Essence on May 12, 2010, 11:41:56 pm
I like the effect but it seems overpowered especially with fire bolts and the like, oh god the parellel universe

btw by spell it means spells only (fire bolt for example), I'm used to Magic (everything is considered a spell when being cast)

what if it only replicated creatures?

I think you meant to put this in response to Immanence | Transcendence, not this card.  This card doesn't reference "spells" at all. :)
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: icecoldbro on May 13, 2010, 12:11:40 am
i think its a bit lopsided u could double very powerful cards like an end phase drag(could it) maybe if the percents were like 15 and 30
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Arondight on May 13, 2010, 03:07:45 am
I like the name and modified stock photo and as well as the ability. But, it's waaay too powerful. Double Quantum/any Towers? No problem! Double Supernovas? Sure! Double Fire Bolt? Why not?!

Maybe only have it work for creatures? But, even then, it wouldn't help much, because you would be doubling your output of Phase Dragon as mentioned above. I recall reading Phase Dragon was made immaterial to avoid Twin Universe, but it may work because you have to pay the full cost anyway. I think the percentage should be lowered quite a bit and the stacking should be lowered as well.

Definitely great with Time, though.

Edit: Or maybe if we implement some kind of "Legendary Artifact/creature" system...
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: dragonhuman on May 13, 2010, 03:13:33 am
i don't think the up/ unnupped should stack though cause then its defintly overpowered

but wait isn't it a mask? how do you wear multiple masks?

and if your wife replaced the 'sky' with the 'mask' (other than the eyes) it might make a little more sense me thinks
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Boingo on May 13, 2010, 03:45:38 am
Similarly, I don't know what "deck expander" means.  This card doesn't put more cards into your deck; you'll still draw out at the same rate.
This has been described above, but I used "deck expander" to mean it makes a 30 card deck (or 60 card or whatever) effectively larger since you can draw more cards without decking out any faster.  A 30 card deck increases the chance you draw the cards you want faster than a larger deck, but sacrifices in the number of turns before deckout.  But with this card, you get the card you want AND get to play 2 at a time AND don't deckout any faster.  It's like hourglass but better.  Who needs 6 shriekers when you can have 10 in a deck?  Anyway, that's what I meant by deck expander.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Essence on May 13, 2010, 07:45:29 pm
I understand.  Just don't forget that:

1) it's far from a guarantee that you'll get a second copy of the card you draw
2) you have to give up 6 slots in your deck to the Masks in order to 'expand' the rest of your deck
and
3) This isn't coming out, in your typical game, until at least turn 3 or 4, so that's a third of your average deck that's already drawn out before you can get the Mask going.

Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Lanidrak on May 13, 2010, 09:40:05 pm
Aether / Time Combination

6 Pharaohs
4 Masks
9 Time Pillars
9 Aether Pillars
2 Quintessences

Mark of whatever the Scarabs need.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: icetimer on May 13, 2010, 11:29:29 pm
The high cost and the slots used by the mask balance it well enough in my opinion.

RoL/Fractals would benefit more from an additional fractal than a mask which is not guaranteed to get you a fractal and costs a snotload. After all 3-4 Fractals are more than enough to fill the field. the rest is a waste and the first few fractals would not be affected by the doubling as they would be drawn before the quanta reached high enough amounts to play the masks.

An interesting place in my opinion is endgames with the time weapon thingy. Avoid decking out, draw a card, it doubles, you have one more card despite having to make one go back to your deck to avoid decking out! This could be gamebreaking in situations where both players have to do everything to avoid decking out.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Essence on May 15, 2010, 12:41:17 am
Fixed: Precentages dropped to a more reasonable 20% and 40%.  Mostly because I noticed that Gemini Mask can affect future draws of Gemini Mask, making it possible to reach 100% duplication under some circumstances. :)
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: unionruler on May 16, 2010, 01:47:44 am
You could end up drawing 2 fractals, or 2 of the said card you need to fractal, and having say 3 fractals in a deck, would and could net you six with the current numbers, so that you can use fractal more often.

Thats how I saw it anyway. Also something I didn't think of, drawing 2 towers could be OP when combined with Fire, I say could be because it adds 4 more on that turn then 2 extra each other, again doesn't seem like THAT big a deal but who knows.
I'd never put this in a RoL-Hope deck it would clog up your hand space and reduce its consistency even further.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: binde22 on May 16, 2010, 03:16:38 pm
though it may be op this might a be a cool way to make it so that you can get more than 6 spells cause frac and par only work on spells like flying weapon
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: MaxMilen on June 07, 2010, 07:41:00 pm
You've mentioned that the different versions of the Masks stack, but I'd like a little detail on that. Is your intent that each group tries separately to duplicate the card? If so, will the second group try to duplicate the card even if the first succeeded?

Regardless, it's a very interesting concept, and I can definitely see it working well.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: GG on June 09, 2010, 04:40:26 am
what if false god eternal phoenix holds this card and starts fire lancing people...

*SHIVERS*
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: midg3333 on June 09, 2010, 07:57:17 am
Not sure if its been said before, I haven't seen it but it seems really obvious: This card in a deck that uses phase shields...and possibly PA as well. Think about it...You PA this, then have a reasonable chance of drawing extra PA's, phase shields and creatures. The extra shields let you stay invulnerable for the entire game, not just 2/3 of it (approximately), the extra PA's mean you can continue protecting the extra shields that you get, and the extra creatures are also immortal, not to mention you also get extra pillars to pay for some of the extra cards quanta-wise. I'm not sure exactly how much better that would make the deck, because it may just end up slowing that sort of deck down, but it's just something to think about.

It may also be OP in a rainbow anti-FG deck because it would allow for more permanents to be drawn, causing the FG's permanent control to be insufficient. The main permanent i'm talking about here would be a SoG. SoG's are really cheap as it is for such a good effect, and drawing more of them would be even more amazing...

On the other hand, this would be a cool card in combination with a bunch of time cards:
-anything that lets you draw faster would be more effective, making precognition much more useful in non-rush decks
-reverse time lets you get even more creatures, eternity has unlimited reverse times, making it kinda cool for this (not that useful, but still kinda cool =P)
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Kael Hate on June 13, 2010, 04:48:00 pm
Do the card stack like Pillars do?
How do the two masks stack?
Is one Gemini mask and one Aleph mask better than two Gemini mask?
Can I get 2 extra cards if I play a Gemini Mask and an Aleph mask?
How'd you get 86% in the example?
I get 75% if added flat, and 62.5% when generated as two seperate combined chances.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Essence on June 15, 2010, 09:20:48 am
I meant that they stack as in, if you have 1 Aleph Mask and 2 Gemini Mask, you start with the base 40% from Gemini Mask, and you add 5% for the second Gemini Mask and then you add 5% for the Aleph Mask, for a total of 50%.

The 86% is a relic from when the masks' base percentages were 33% and 66%; it should say "60%" in that place.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: MaxMilen on June 15, 2010, 04:42:44 pm
I meant that they stack as in, if you have 1 Aleph Mask and 2 Gemini Mask, you start with the base 40% from Gemini Mask, and you add 5% for the second Gemini Mask and then you add 5% for the Aleph Mask, for a total of 50%.

The 86% is a relic from when the masks' base percentages were 33% and 66%; it should say "60%" in that place.
So, if you have some of each, you start from Gemini's 40%, then add 5% for each Gemini after the first and each Alpha (for a maximum chance of 95%, in the highly unlikely case of having 6 of each)?
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Essence on June 19, 2010, 04:35:38 am
Exactly. :)
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: rakazy8564 on June 21, 2010, 05:28:30 am
I meant that they stack as in, if you have 1 Aleph Mask and 2 Gemini Mask, you start with the base 40% from Gemini Mask, and you add 5% for the second Gemini Mask and then you add 5% for the Aleph Mask, for a total of 50%.

The 86% is a relic from when the masks' base percentages were 33% and 66%; it should say "60%" in that place.
So, if you have some of each, you start from Gemini's 40%, then add 5% for each Gemini after the first and each Alpha (for a maximum chance of 95%, in the highly unlikely case of having 6 of each)?
How'd you get 95%??  Seeing as they're the same card, just that Gemini is the upgraded version, you can only have 6; 40% for the initial mask, and 5*5% for the other mask, that's a total of (40% + 25%) 65% isn't it? o_O  Even then, when will you draw all six cards?  I have 6 Phase Shields (Aether FTW!!  Non-Phase Shield decks are really fun too =P) and they usually take a good chunk of the 24 turns to bring them out.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: MaxMilen on June 22, 2010, 07:02:43 am
I meant that they stack as in, if you have 1 Aleph Mask and 2 Gemini Mask, you start with the base 40% from Gemini Mask, and you add 5% for the second Gemini Mask and then you add 5% for the Aleph Mask, for a total of 50%.

The 86% is a relic from when the masks' base percentages were 33% and 66%; it should say "60%" in that place.
So, if you have some of each, you start from Gemini's 40%, then add 5% for each Gemini after the first and each Alpha (for a maximum chance of 95%, in the highly unlikely case of having 6 of each)?
How'd you get 95%??  Seeing as they're the same card, just that Gemini is the upgraded version, you can only have 6; 40% for the initial mask, and 5*5% for the other mask, that's a total of (40% + 25%) 65% isn't it? o_O  Even then, when will you draw all six cards?  I have 6 Phase Shields (Aether FTW!!  Non-Phase Shield decks are really fun too =P) and they usually take a good chunk of the 24 turns to bring them out.
XD -- Can't believe I forgot that. Of course, since one Mask could end up copying another, not only is that 95% still possible, albeit extremely unlikely, but one could even theoretically get it to a guarantee. Of course, you'd have to get yourself to 13 masks first, and by then, chances are you've drawn out your deck, or the game's already over...
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Innominate on June 22, 2010, 08:18:44 am
I meant that they stack as in, if you have 1 Aleph Mask and 2 Gemini Mask, you start with the base 40% from Gemini Mask, and you add 5% for the second Gemini Mask and then you add 5% for the Aleph Mask, for a total of 50%.

The 86% is a relic from when the masks' base percentages were 33% and 66%; it should say "60%" in that place.
So, if you have some of each, you start from Gemini's 40%, then add 5% for each Gemini after the first and each Alpha (for a maximum chance of 95%, in the highly unlikely case of having 6 of each)?
How'd you get 95%??  Seeing as they're the same card, just that Gemini is the upgraded version, you can only have 6; 40% for the initial mask, and 5*5% for the other mask, that's a total of (40% + 25%) 65% isn't it? o_O  Even then, when will you draw all six cards?  I have 6 Phase Shields (Aether FTW!!  Non-Phase Shield decks are really fun too =P) and they usually take a good chunk of the 24 turns to bring them out.
Assuming you have 6 Geminis, and assuming an optimal draw (1 gemini on the first turn) where every one but the first played is duplicated, we get (chance to duplicate the card drawn AFTER Mask number):
1) 40%
2) 50%
3) 60%
4) 70%
5) 80%
6) 90%

The total odds of duplicating 5 geminis in a row (assuming we draw at most one in the opening hand otherwise it is impossible) is 6.72%. This is pretty likely in the scheme of things. It's unlikely however that it would happen in a real situation, where you have the quite likely possibility that you draw more than one in the opening hand (particularly if you go second, or you have only ~30 cards), and the additional complications of enemies destroying/stealing your masks, not having enough quanta to play one of the 11 masks involved (77 over the course of the game) and the game ending before you get the chance to play them.

So, basically, it seems like a nice addition to aether, continuing the duplication theme.
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: ratcharmer on September 09, 2010, 07:35:55 pm
Does mindgate count as drawing, or is it another "creates cards in your hand" like fractal?
Title: Re: Aleph Mask | Gemini Mask
Post by: Higurashi on September 09, 2010, 08:24:08 pm
It creates a card in your hand. Otherwise you could prevent deckout as long as your opponent had cards.
blarg: