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Sal

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Consistant Cremate Rush (AI3 Grinder/ttw 5.6) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11952.msg147913#msg147913
« on: August 28, 2010, 08:59:39 am »
by Sal
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5f2 5f2 6rk 6rk 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 8pm


I designed this to grind AI3.The main idea was to create a list that consistantly wins within a very low timeframe to increase the profit in cash/score gain.
Even with a bad start hand (no pillar) the deck is still fast enough to win turn 7 tops.
And this is the major opportunity over other versions of a Fire Rush.
The average game usually lasts only 5-6 turns (as you can see in the statistic).

Playstyle is very simple.Depending on your hand you cremate (usually a Phoenix) to gain a massive speed advantage and play very Quanta efficient Creatures before the AI could handle it (even if a shield hits the board its usually too late).
Healing / Destroying / Rewinding one or 2 of your Creatures usually only delays the killing turn by 1 if at all (unlike SG´s pure Dragon list that really suffers from rewind).

I´ve also tested a version with 0 quanta cost to increase the killspeed but found out pretty quickly that this leads to inconsistancy ( you don´t ever wanna draw into RoL etc or it will cost you at least 1 turn ... and that happens way to frequently).Sure you can possibly kill earlier, but on the average your game lasts longer cause you are a lot more vulnurable to bad draws -> less spins -> less cash within the same timeframe.

Just make sure you make the best use out of your quanta. The math is really a nobrainer.(Long Sword costs 1 quanta,Phoenix cost 2, Golem costs 5, Dragon costs 10). Just play whats giving you the highest damage output for the curret turn and don´t save up the quanta for the next turn.If that means you have to sacrifice a Golem to play a Golem and a Dragon then do it.You don´t want a long game and if you stick to this rule you don´t have to think at all.

Worst card in the Deck are the 2 Dragons, you never want to see it but there is no cost efficient alternative yet.The upgraded one sits in your hand forever - even with a cremate most of the time you won´t be able to cast them (and thus waste potential damage).The unupgraded one provides 12 damage for 10 Quanta while beeing as fragile as a phoenix - it dies to everything. Rewinding a Dragon is a serious speedbump especially when the deck is designed to "cheat" them into play via cremate (and most likly won´t be able to re-play it soon).

The alternative "pump" creature costs 2 mana for 0 (Unupgraded) or 3 mana for 2 damage. Both not efficient quanta use for this specific design.
Brimstone eater would provide 2 damage for 1 Quanta (or 0 Quanta, but you can´t spend the Quanta the turn it comes into play) and could be viable - but i feel 4 damage is the absolute minimum a card should do. If i could play 8 phoenix i would do it xD
 I also prefer the Long Sword over Gravel. 6 damage for 1 quanta is just pure efficiency. Gravel costs 100% more for a single damage more... and with this deck i´ve never seen it happen that the AI survives the turn with 1-3 life.

Statistic:
Testsample:80 Games

average winning turn :5.6
average HP left: 82.68
average cash won/game: 18.8 (without "bonus" from spinning)
average EMrate: 0,05 (5%)

Winning turn 4:12
Winning turn 5:28
Winning turn 6:20
Winning turn 7:20

Note: Haven´t lost within the Testrow although i´ve lost 2 games earlier with it against a Entropy Deck. Randomly happens like once a day when you grind for several hours.

Note: Feel free to trade the 2 Dragons with 2 Shards of Gratitude if you wanna trade speed for a slightly higher EM-rate.

Upped vs Unupped:
The unupped alternative wouldn´t work out. This Deck relies on the upgraded Phoenix during the early turns (for 2 quanta instead of 7) to be uses for Cremate. You´ll need at least the Phoenix upgraded for the deck to work at all. The upgraded pillars give you at least  a single turn faster speed.The Longsword upgrade is very noticable. The Golems and Cremate aren´t that important upgrades but still provide an edge.
For an unupped version i would suggest to cut both Dragons for additional Pillars and try to get your Phoenix upped asap.

Otherwise just stick to a cheap basic Shrieker rush for grinding (6 Graboid, 6Shrieker, 2 Longsword,16 Pillars // Time Mark).
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 03:20:04 pm by willng3 »

Re: Consistant Cremate Rush (AI3 Grinder/ttw 5.6) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11952.msg147976#msg147976
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2010, 02:44:52 pm »
Thats just another golum rush.   :P Theres at least 3-4 different versions.

Sal

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Re: Consistant Cremate Rush (AI3 Grinder/ttw 5.6) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11952.msg147983#msg147983
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2010, 02:59:54 pm »
Well there are "only" 14  :fire cards in this game. Gonna be pretty tough to re-invent the wheel with that  ;D

Just wanted to share the compilation of what works out best for me.

Offline tinkady

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Re: Consistant Cremate Rush (AI3 Grinder/ttw 5.6) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11952.msg148095#msg148095
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2010, 07:26:04 pm »
has this been tested against http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11389.0.html ?
i have a feeling its not as good, but i could be wrong. also why use short swords instead of gavels? you have all the extra quanta from cremates, its unlikely that you'll use up any :fire

Nume

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Re: Consistant Cremate Rush (AI3 Grinder/ttw 5.6) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11952.msg148170#msg148170
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2010, 09:17:30 pm »
It looks like an interesting twist. Its not just another rush because it uses no rol/ball lightning, which is unusual. I could see it working though, though it may not be as fast.

Sal

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Re: Consistant Cremate Rush (AI3 Grinder/ttw 5.6) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11952.msg148350#msg148350
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2010, 04:37:04 am »
has this been tested against http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11389.0.html ?
i have a feeling its not as good, but i could be wrong. also why use short swords instead of gavels? you have all the extra quanta from cremates, its unlikely that you'll use up any :fire
Short Sword - 1 Quanta - 3 damage
Long Sword - 1 Quanta - 6 damage
Gavel - 2 Quanta - 7 damage

I am using 2 Long Swords in the list because they are giving you the most bang for the buck. 1vs2 Quanta is pretty huge during the first 2 turns and will often mean the difference between casting an additional creature or not.

The 1 additional quanta needed for the Gavel only is worth it when i cast it on turn 1 or 2 - and this is the time i really need the quanta for the Phoenix to get everything rolling.

Also note i´m NOT playing 6 Cremate 4-6 RoL/Ball Lightning because they are just horrible topdecks.Other than your starting hand you don´t ever want to see these show up. And the odds of seeing that happen are pretty huge since 6Cremate + 4 Rol / Ball Lightning would fill 10 out of 30 cardslots with "bad" topdecks.
The first 2 Cremates are never dead only the next 2 you would draw after them. Thats 2 "bad" topdecks vs 8. I would say it is a major improvement and adds a lot more consistancy to the deck. It happens quite a lot that your creatures get Rewinded or frozen that would usually delay the killing turn by at least 1. With my list it doesn´t matter.
Even 3 Heals casted during the the initial 4 turns won´t buy enough time to survive long enough to stabilize because of the better topdeck rate.

The next major issue i had with additional Cremates / RoL / Ball Lightning was the current Mulligan system. Chances are you end up with just a Cremate or Ball Lightning but without pillars in your opening hand.I reduced the odds of that happening a lot and even play more pillars than the "Rush" list.Once again for consistancy.

I´m pretty happy with the 6 Phoenix/4 Cremate split. With the upgraded Pillars you are still able to pump out your 2 Golems on turn 1 when the hand is right and you can be sure that you won´t draw "dead" cards after that.

Edit:
I ran into the "mirror" match between my version and the Ball Lightning Cremate.His start was faster but my draw was a lot better (he drew 3 Ball Lightnings while i drew "quality").Thats exactly what i meant.
http://img529.imageshack.us/f/crematemirror.png/

 

blarg: Sal