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Offline mwaethtTopic starter

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Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451213#msg451213
« on: January 21, 2012, 08:14:43 pm »
What do you think?

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6rm 6rm 6rm 6rm 6rm 6rm 7k2 7k2 7k2 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80a 80a 80a 80a 80a 80a 80c 80c 80f 80f 80f 80f 80f 80f 8pq


It's based on an old idea I had a few weeks ago. I like Aether, but mono- :aether was too unoriginal for an FG proposal, so I looked through my series of half-finished arena decks. I polished the idea up a bit and made... this.

The name's intending to reference an unreachable, untouchable God. Between the Shards of Divinity/Miracles, for anti-OTK, and the immaterial creatures that are a mainstay of mono- :aether, I think the name kinda fits. Please suggest better ones, though- it doesn't seem very FG-ish.

No Phase Shields. I never liked them much, and almost every FG grinder either packs PC or Momentum (Chimera). By the same "almost everyone packs PC" rule, there's no other permanents either. Thunderbolt is used for stalling instead.

Offline 1chase1997

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451229#msg451229
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 08:31:39 pm »
personally, i only have one thing...

I believe there should be a couple Aether PENDULUMS in there just for a tiny bit faster miracles after the first one.

Offline willng3

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451252#msg451252
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 09:33:23 pm »
Yeah I'd definitely get some Pendulums in there for faster Miracles.  Right now I can clearly see that this FG would hardcounter OTK decks such as Instosis as well as Liquid Antimatter and Voodoo decks, but I don't think RoL/Hope, CCYB, Timebows, or IGT would have too many problems here.

However, even with faster Miracles players will make sure to prevent the AI from using Miracle by reducing its HP gradually and then laying down a ton of damage on the last turn.  So just adding Pends would increase its winrate against less experienced players or players who aren't paying attention to the duel, but otherwise players will still find ways to get around the Miracles.  The only way to prevent that from happening would be to heal yourself each turn to prevent players from lowering Remote's HP to where they could Fractal spam for the win; Sanctuary might be a worthwhile addition in that case even though I understand you're opposed to adding Permanents.
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Offline mwaethtTopic starter

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451291#msg451291
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2012, 12:09:22 am »
-CCYB: No debate. Even without Antimatters, this deck crashes and burns against Permafrost Shield + tons of SoG/Sanctuary, and the deck can't do much against a quinted Lava Destroyer, FFQ, or (especially) Blue Nymph.

-RoL/Hope: Also good counter, like against Divine Glory. Not helped by the fact that Archangels and Light Dragons are really, really hard to kill for this deck.

-Timebows: Could you give me a sample deck? I know they exist, but I haven't actually seen one.

-Maximum damage per turn of IGT: 8 GotP * 9 damage per GotP + 3 Eternity * 4 damage per turn = 84 damage per turn. Cue Miracle. This deck has a wait-time of 4 turns in between Miracles, so it needs at least 337 max HP, or 6 SoD. That's not happening, so Pendulums would indeed help. Of course, this assumes the FG won't Thunderbolt the fractaled Ghosts into oblivion, and the IGT player fractals with nothing in hand. If it kills just three GotP (very feasible, given it has nothing else on which to use all those Thunderbolts it draws and saves up), it only needs to meet the much more manageable goal of 2 SoD to be able to chain Miracles. There's nothing for IGT to draw-lock this FG with, either.

Of your concern for bursting out a Fractal after gradually taking the FG's HP down to 84 HP: Assume the rather artificial scenario that three Eternities are laid down on the first turn (this is the maximum amount of damage possible before the Fractal). You need 10 turns to take the FG down to Fractal burst range, which is quite achievable. However, each SoD will add two turns to that counter. At 4 SoD, you need 18 turns to take the opponent down to Fractal range- but, unfortunately, that also happens to be the exact number of turns you can stall with Phase Shield.

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451297#msg451297
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2012, 12:37:32 am »
-Timebows: Could you give me a sample deck? I know they exist, but I haven't actually seen one.
Yeah, they're not all that commonly used, and the only one aside from SG's Rainbow that comes to mind would be this one:  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11062.0.html
I also have one that I used to use stashed away somewhere, but I can't seem to find the document where I saved the code.

I'm not exactly sure of what to expect from one at this point because most of the old variants are so outdated now, but it was really the only other FG grinder type that came to mind.  Defeating Remote would have to require Permafrosts and Phase Shields probably, otherwise Bone Wall's not doing much to save the player.  And Eternity of course means that deckout is probably the most common win condition unless a Fallen Druid gets Quinted early on in the duel.  The size of the Timebow is likely going to be its biggest downfall since they're pretty prone to poor starting hands.  I think that the difference in builds would make this deck type an unreliable counter to Remote.

And about IGT, yeah I shouldn't have mentioned it until I got down to the burst damage part as it wouldn't fare very well without having had time to damage Remote beforehand.  I also honestly haven't used it against FGs extensively since SoG was nerfed so I don't have a good understanding of how long it would be able to take abuse from Dragons and Immortals before being forced to play another Phase Shield.  It used to be quite a few turns in situations where there was little PC, but I'm pretty sure that's far from the case anymore.  Also, unless the player is using 10 men's variant with Anubis then I doubt it would be able to endure Remote before Fractal bursting.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451318#msg451318
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 01:41:11 am »
Are you seriously powering 3 miracles and a few SoDs with just one mark of :light? And no dim shields to stall for light quanta?

Offline mwaethtTopic starter

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451358#msg451358
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2012, 03:40:41 am »
If it works, it works...

Yes. I'm powering SoDs and Miracle with a 3xMark of Light. I can Miracle once every four turns; if the opponent has enough damage to take me from max HP to 0 in three turns or less, even after I've exhausted all the copies of my 12xThunderbolts that I've drawn, I'd have lost anyways.

No Dim Shields because anyone facing this deck obviously either has no PC (Some OTK's, IGT, Shakar's, Liquid Antimatter, RoL/Hope) or they do.

This deck has SoD and Miracle to beat down OTK's. Liquid Antimatter is an auto-win and RoL/Hope is an auto-lose; Phase Shields won't make a difference. Shakar's couldn't care less about Phase Shield. I'm not about to put in Phase Shield for better odds against one deck in question, IGT, when it'll be practically a dead card in any PC-containing matchup and most of the non-PC-containing ones.

Offline furballdn

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451385#msg451385
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2012, 05:05:45 am »
Hm. When I made my first post, I didn't read the thread carefully, and forgot FGs have a triple mark. My bad. This deck looks quite annoying to face. Looks like the only safe way to beat it is to stall it to death as your FG has plenty of control and invincible creatures. Just tried to beat it with splat, and got killed. Quite an annoying FG.

Offline mwaethtTopic starter

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451404#msg451404
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2012, 06:31:32 am »
*smirks* If you find it annoying, that means it's doing its job well.

I'm surprised it does so well against SPlat; that deck usually has about 12-18 turns of stalling (12 guaranteed from SoSac + a turn in between each SoSac), and given that Neurotoxin could easily reach the required "kill you in three turns" levels by then, I'd have thought it would be a hard counter.

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451408#msg451408
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2012, 06:57:36 am »
Did some testing in trainer. It is annoying. Came up on a counter which involved a duo life/light deck. Use SoGs, sanctuaries, and spine carapace to stall the AI to death. Add in some cannon fodder (like RoL and leaf dragon) so AI wastes lightnings and doesn't clog its own hand up.

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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451436#msg451436
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2012, 09:11:33 am »
Did some testing in trainer. It is annoying. Came up on a counter which involved a duo life/light deck. Use SoGs, sanctuaries, and spine carapace to stall the AI to death. Add in some cannon fodder (like RoL and leaf dragon) so AI wastes lightnings and doesn't clog its own hand up.

or just gravity shield and sancs lol
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Re: Remote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35867.msg451564#msg451564
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2012, 07:15:55 pm »
Did some testing in trainer. It is annoying. Came up on a counter which involved a duo life/light deck. Use SoGs, sanctuaries, and spine carapace to stall the AI to death. Add in some cannon fodder (like RoL and leaf dragon) so AI wastes lightnings and doesn't clog its own hand up.

or just gravity shield and sancs lol
Oh right lol. This FG only has 4 immortals. 5 sanctuaries and a gravity shield should be able to stall this out.

 

anything
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