Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Underworld

[Kael Hate]

No....I'm perfectly fine with you having an upped deck. It's the part where you can have any deck upped, whereas you know what I'm likely to play due to upgrades. Make sense?

No. Because to maintain a functional deck featuring no more than 3 of any card or 6 of any element I am more limited than you who with skill points in 50% his element and 50% spread out between other elements actually has a wider range of decks.
I used those limit values because that is what you need to maintain the +1 XP and stay above the rep neg.

[Kael Hate]

The difference is that you know what mono-deck he will be using, while you yourself will be able to build anything without any kind of limitations.

Anything.
No limitations.

You don't see the difference here?

Ninja'd.

I can't know if he is using Upped Crusaders with a longswords or Upped Pegasi with Bless or a Sanctuary Stall out deck any better than any other day.

Or in Korugor's case a Blessed Charger Deck, Otyugh Armour deck or a plain old Accelerated Armagio.



Just because this will make varied flavours of player will not make Underworlders any more powerful.
Any In element player need only commit 50% of his deck to his element and gain the bonus the rest can be anything and he can choose skills from any other element including underworl to make that adaption.
An Underworlder can use no more than 6 of an element before that is broken, so he is not even allowed to get use out of being a half underworld half dedicated element. What teh point of me investing more than 5 points in any other element since I can't use the upgrades anyhow. Also Since I have to spread my skill points amongst elements I'm wasting several just in marks.

In-element is much much stronger when it comes to upgrade points and deck building as is, and even with this suggest ruleset will still be ahead in the long term.

[Korugar]

OK, what if when you are on neutral territory, you can upgrade any card; but with one condition. You must have an equal number, or one less, of at least six(maybe more, I'm just trying to think of the fact that few rainbows use all twelve elements) other elements in your deck(except for "other", because of quantum pillar purposes). This will allow you to upgrade an equal amount of cards for your decks as anyone else, so long as you're using a rainbow deck, while settling the problem I believe exists with TStar's suggestion. It will also allow you to use a mono deck, if you so choose, but will not allow for very much upgrading of it(just as I could play a rainbow deck, but with most of it unupped).

[Kael Hate]

OK, what if when you are on neutral territory, you can upgrade any card; but with one condition. You must have an equal number, or one less, of at least six(maybe more, I'm just trying to think of the fact that few rainbows use all twelve elements) other elements in your deck(except for "other", because of quantum pillar purposes). This will allow you to upgrade an equal amount of cards for your decks as anyone else, so long as you're using a rainbow deck, while settling the problem I believe exists with TStar's suggestion. It will also allow you to use a mono deck, if you so choose, but will not allow for very much upgrading of it(just as I could play a rainbow deck, but with most of it unupped).

If you use more than 6 of an element in a deck you lose an Xp and you risk suffering a neg to your reputation. Its the current deckbuilding rules that screw Underworld over further.

[Korugar]

Well, I would assume that that would need to be changed for underworld players. But even so, look at my idea, not my specific numbers. I threw those out there without much thought, due to not playing many rainbow decks.

[TStar]

Like Kael said, the current rules for UW require that a player use at most 6 cards of any element in a deck before risking penalties to reputation and reduced XP.  Couple that with the UW Mark and it would almost be suicidal to try and play a mono-deck since if you walk onto a hex controlled by the wrong element you'd be toast.

[Scaredgirl]

Like Kael said, the current rules for UW require that a player use at most 6 cards of any element in a deck before risking penalties to reputation and reduced XP.  Couple that with the UW Mark and it would almost be suicidal to try and play a mono-deck since if you walk onto a hex controlled by the wrong element you'd be toast.

Yes, but that's balancing basic deckbuilding rules based on some outside force that will very likely change, in this case XP and Rep bonuses. We should balance the deckbuilding without thinking about XP bonuses, prices, quests, anything like that. We should balance one thing at a time, then move to the next one, not give UW huge advantage because they supposedly have disadvantage on other areas.

And I would like to mention once again that the main problem to me is the fact that using the rules you suggest, the difference between neutral and non-neutral hex is way too big. I'm pretty sure that either the non-neutral hex needs a nerf, or the neutral hex needs a buff, preferable the first one.

[TStar]

The Revenge skill seems out of place when compared to every other skill in the game.  It seems to be the only one that rewards failure instead of success.  By that I mean a successful player would rarely or never be able to even use the skill since it requires you to lose.  Also, with the Discard/Salvage system once you lose a battle you are already at a disadvantage against the same foe for the next battle since you will have even less cards available to you and your opponent more, making it even harder to win and make use of the skill.

[Scaredgirl]

The Revenge skill seems out of place when compared to every other skill in the game.  It seems to be the only one that rewards failure instead of success.  By that I mean a successful player would rarely or never be able to even use the skill since it requires you to lose.  Also, with the Discard/Salvage system once you lose a battle you are already at a disadvantage against the same foe for the next battle since you will have even less cards available to you and your opponent more, making it even harder to win and make use of the skill.

Think of it as fire insurance. Sure it's useless when nothing bad happens, but if your house suddenly burns down, it's pretty special.

[TStar]

The Revenge skill seems out of place when compared to every other skill in the game.  It seems to be the only one that rewards failure instead of success.  By that I mean a successful player would rarely or never be able to even use the skill since it requires you to lose.  Also, with the Discard/Salvage system once you lose a battle you are already at a disadvantage against the same foe for the next battle since you will have even less cards available to you and your opponent more, making it even harder to win and make use of the skill.

Think of it as fire insurance. Sure it's useless when nothing bad happens, but if your house suddenly burns down, it's pretty special.

Yes, but insurance pays off immediately.  You don't need to rebuild your house and prevent the next fire to reap the benefits of it.

[Scaredgirl]

The Revenge skill seems out of place when compared to every other skill in the game.  It seems to be the only one that rewards failure instead of success.  By that I mean a successful player would rarely or never be able to even use the skill since it requires you to lose.  Also, with the Discard/Salvage system once you lose a battle you are already at a disadvantage against the same foe for the next battle since you will have even less cards available to you and your opponent more, making it even harder to win and make use of the skill.

Think of it as fire insurance. Sure it's useless when nothing bad happens, but if your house suddenly burns down, it's pretty special.

Yes, but insurance pays off immediately.  You don't need to rebuild your house and prevent the next fire to reap the benefits of it.

Those are just details. The principle of "rewarding failure" still exists in both.


I don't see a problem wit Revenge skill. I think it's a nice skill and fits the theme.

If a person with Revenge loses, he or she can hunt down the killer for a bonus, which is always fun. If the person never loses.. we'll I that he or she should be pretty happy regardless of having one "dead" skill. People who take fire insurance don't get all disappointed if their house doesn't get burned to the ground. Nothing bad happening is a good thing. The concept of insurance is only to help you IF something bad happens, and Revenge works the same way.

[YoungSot]

I think the way UW gets upgrades is still in need of fixing. Currently a level 6 UW player gets 1 additional "bonus upgrade" that they can put toward any element (over and above the bonuses everyone gets), but all six of their regular upgrades essentially have to be spent on quantum towers (and often as not rainbow decks use nova anyway so they don't need large numbers of upped QTs).

Meanwhile a level 6 player from a regular element can use their 8 upgrades on a whole element's worth of cards, and thus get much more out of them. I'm not sure the best way to fix this but it's definitely not a good balance atm.

Perhaps underworld shouldn't receive bonus upgrades, but instead have all their upgrades from underworld skills act like bonus ups which can be used in any element? So a lvl 6 UW player would get 6 ups for any element, while a level 6 fire player would receive 8 ups for Fire and 2 bonus ups for any element. That results in a more even balance imo.

What does everyone else think?