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Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg322812#msg322812
« on: April 29, 2011, 06:52:45 pm »

Offline Nepycros

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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg322905#msg322905
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 08:40:21 pm »
Imma gonna love testing out Mage Hunter. And the reason Imma love it is that I think it's ridiculously OP, or at least treading the ground where things may be called OP. This single skill locks down 1/3 of the possible card types an opponent may play. It's safe to say Spells make up more than 1/3 of the entire elements card bank. Preventing the use of it is a crippling blow that makes me rate it as #1 on the level of Card-denial skills. Combining this with Cyborg and Find A Weakness, and your opponent is stuck at playing unique permanents, pillars, and creatures. Add in Champion of Light or Champion of Water, and that locks down creatures even more. Diversion can prevent you from playing specific permanents, thus locking down up to 66+% of the entire card bank a player would have.
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Offline Korugar

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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg323014#msg323014
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 10:39:33 pm »
Just to note, you can't actually make that combination with the current maximum level. Unless that maximum was revoked, and experience amounts for those higher levels just haven't been figured out yet.

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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg325775#msg325775
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 01:27:53 pm »
Imma gonna love testing out Mage Hunter. And the reason Imma love it is that I think it's ridiculously OP, or at least treading the ground where things may be called OP. This single skill locks down 1/3 of the possible card types an opponent may play. It's safe to say Spells make up more than 1/3 of the entire elements card bank. Preventing the use of it is a crippling blow that makes me rate it as #1 on the level of Card-denial skills. Combining this with Cyborg and Find A Weakness, and your opponent is stuck at playing unique permanents, pillars, and creatures. Add in Champion of Light or Champion of Water, and that locks down creatures even more. Diversion can prevent you from playing specific permanents, thus locking down up to 66+% of the entire card bank a player would have.
Yes, Mage Hunter is definitely OP and needs a nerf.

I've been thinking about different solutions, but don't yet know which one would be the best. Three main options that I came up with are:

1. Opponent cannot use UPGRADED spells (probably UP)
2. Opponents can use a maximum of 3 spells in their decks
3. Combination of the two above

Offline Nepycros

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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg325777#msg325777
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2011, 01:29:57 pm »
Imma gonna love testing out Mage Hunter. And the reason Imma love it is that I think it's ridiculously OP, or at least treading the ground where things may be called OP. This single skill locks down 1/3 of the possible card types an opponent may play. It's safe to say Spells make up more than 1/3 of the entire elements card bank. Preventing the use of it is a crippling blow that makes me rate it as #1 on the level of Card-denial skills. Combining this with Cyborg and Find A Weakness, and your opponent is stuck at playing unique permanents, pillars, and creatures. Add in Champion of Light or Champion of Water, and that locks down creatures even more. Diversion can prevent you from playing specific permanents, thus locking down up to 66+% of the entire card bank a player would have.
Yes, Mage Hunter is definitely OP and needs a nerf.

I've been thinking about different solutions, but don't yet know which one would be the best. Three main options that I came up with are:

1. Opponent cannot use UPGRADED spells (probably UP)
2. Opponents can use a maximum of 3 spells in their decks
3. Combination of the two above
I'm thinking that Mage Hunter would cause the opponent to not be allowed to play direct damage spells. After all, "bolts" and magic attacks are the most prominent skill. Things like Purify and Stone Skin are minor.
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

Why, yes. I do have a Mindgate necklace. It's how I ninja everyone.

Offline Shantu

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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg325782#msg325782
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 01:43:04 pm »
If you limit the number of spells to 3, you more or less kill nova and immo decks. You decide if it is good or not. (I'd say yes).

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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg325970#msg325970
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 05:48:02 pm »
Darkness players will be off to a quick start, since I imagine most of them will be taking Quanta Leech as their first skill. You gain the XP even if you lose, so there's no downside to it. Does it need a max XP bonus?

I'm happy with the change to Mage Hunter, it's still really strong but doesn't completely shut your opponent out of Spells. And yes it does hurt Immo and Nova decks, which is never a bad thing.

I know one thing for sure.... I'd never want to lose to a Champion of :darkness

Offline Wizardcat

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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg326259#msg326259
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2011, 10:17:05 pm »
Darkness players will be off to a quick start, since I imagine most of them will be taking Quanta Leech as their first skill. You gain the XP even if you lose, so there's no downside to it. Does it need a max XP bonus?
Most? All. :V

It already has a limit in that the theoretical max is +10EXP, if the opponent uses a deck of 60 Pillars/Towers. It should go without saying that this will never happen. Pends and other quanta sources also don't count towards Quanta Leech, which will get taken advantage of by a Darkness player's opponents. On average, the ability will provide us with between +1-3EXP per battle, depending on the element on the opponent and their skills; a player with Stall, for instance, is more likely to use more pillars. I think that the ability is well-placed as Tier 1, as it will become less useful as pendulums become more common later in the game.

Quote
I'm happy with the change to Mage Hunter, it's still really strong but doesn't completely shut your opponent out of Spells. And yes it does hurt Immo and Nova decks, which is never a bad thing.
Yeah, this is more balanced.

Quote
I know one thing for sure.... I'd never want to lose to a Champion of :darkness
Yep. Flee, little elementals!

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Now, I have a query: Pickpocketing 'attempts to steal one of their items.' What does this mean specifically? Is there a chance to fail, for instance, or can it be prevented?
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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg330511#msg330511
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2011, 11:03:53 am »
Now, I have a query: Pickpocketing 'attempts to steal one of their items.' What does this mean specifically? Is there a chance to fail, for instance, or can it be prevented?
I'm not sure yet.

It probably works like this. If you are in the same hex with your pickpocketing target, you steal one random item from his or her inventory, and there is a chance of failure of 25-50%.

This skill has a high chance of being replaced because it involves high level of organizer involvement.

Offline TimerClock14

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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg330979#msg330979
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2011, 11:00:26 pm »
Now, I have a query: Pickpocketing 'attempts to steal one of their items.' What does this mean specifically? Is there a chance to fail, for instance, or can it be prevented?
I'm not sure yet.

It probably works like this. If you are in the same hex with your pickpocketing target, you steal one random item from his or her inventory, and there is a chance of failure of 25-50%.

This skill has a high chance of being replaced because it involves high level of organizer involvement.
Not really, things like this can be easily randomized in a report script.
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Re: Woe Alpha - Skill Feedback - Darkness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25350.msg393022#msg393022
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 05:45:47 pm »
I suggest a small nerf to:


Backstabbing 6->3
Mage Hunter 3->5
Champion 1/2->1/4
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