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Offline ColorlessGreenTopic starter

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1123633#msg1123633
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2014, 09:46:53 pm »
Double posting because I can.

OP is now updated with all valid deck tests (as well as droprate tests) through this post. UEI for all decks in the OP has been updated with current UEI formula. This has resulted in an increase pretty much across the board.

As a reminder, TTW is required for all tests in this study. Also, TTW means average Turns To Win. It does not mean total turns. It does not mean time to win. It does not mean average turns to lose. It does not mean average of turns to win and turns to lose. It means the average turns to win as shown on the victory screen and nothing else.

As another reminder, valid deck tests must be at least 50 games long, including wins, losses, TTWs, and EMs. Unreported EMs will be assumed to be 0. You cannot modify a deck in the middle of a test, including upgrading cards.

As yet another reminder, valid droprate tests must be at least 20 wins long, and include all upped cards won and all unupped cards won. We are not studying rare drops. You can feel free to specify rares as well, but please make sure it is obvious what your total upped and total unupped are. If I have to guess whether "rares" means "unupped rares" or "upped rares" or is already counted in unupped, your test is invalid. Example of a good droprate test mentioning rares: "Unupped: 6 cards won, 2 of which were rares. Upped: 25 cards won, 12 of which were rares". Example of an invalid droprate test mentioning rares: "Unupped: 8. Upped: 4. Rares: 18".

However, with that being said, I consider the droprate basically figured out at this point, as we're well past the 1k wins target I was hoping for. This doesn't mean I won't accept additional droprate test submissions, I just don't really find it that important to continue to study at this point.

Many thanks for the information, everybody! I definitely consider this study a success.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 10:23:09 pm by ColorlessGreen »

Offline Higurashi

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1123635#msg1123635
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2014, 09:59:08 pm »
Looks like you've got the wrong deck code for SoB Air Rush there. It's a double JMZ Classic!
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Offline ColorlessGreenTopic starter

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1123639#msg1123639
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2014, 10:15:23 pm »
Looks like you've got the wrong deck code for SoB Air Rush there. It's a double JMZ Classic!

FFS, I swear someday I'll make a stats thread update without typoing anything. That day clearly isn't today though. That's fixed (as is the exact same mistake I made with Power Poison). Thanks for catching it!

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1123647#msg1123647
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2014, 11:02:17 pm »
I'm +repping you for your never ending work, CG
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Offline Apoch the Mad

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1124790#msg1124790
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2014, 05:18:34 am »
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 55q 55q 590 590 590 590 590 5c7 5f6 5f6 5if 5if 5lm 5og 5og 61q 8pm


Modified HBGB deck substituting Arsenic for Mummy

W: 45   L: 65   W%: .409    TTW: 10.58   EM: 0/45   EM%: .0     UEI: 1,499.7
U: 02    N: 12   (2/12 Rares)   Turns(wins): 476   Electrum(wins): 1,387

(N: is for total Non-Upped cards won)

At 50 games I was a dead 25/25 with 1 upped and 6 non-upped cards. I modified my strategy about 70 games in after a losing streak as this was my first time using this deck and also my first time versus HBs, and had sought advice. At several milestones I was close to 55% win ratio. Unfortunately my luck in CC heavy opponents was as bad as my below average spin win ratio. I plan to throw in an upped Quantum Tower and go back to the standard Mummy vs. Arsenic and see if my luck improves.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 02:23:15 pm by Apoch the Mad »

Offline Apoch the Mad

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1124817#msg1124817
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2014, 02:06:35 pm »
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61u 622 622 622 625 625 625 625 625 8pu


Modified Psiontal deck substituting Lobo+15th Aether Pillar for 6th Psion+4th Fractal

W: 40   L: 10   W%: .80   TTW: 13.03   EM: 0/40   EM%: 0.00%   UEI: 2,871.60
U: 06   N: 10   (3/10 Rare)         Turns(wins): 521   Electrum(wins): 1,348

(N: is for total Non-Upped cards won)

After toying with variants in AI3 (not included in this sampling) I decided that 2 Fractals wasn't enough but 4 was far too many. The issue that bothered me was an opening hand of a single aether pillar even with 14/30 in the deck. With a 15th pillar that only happened 1x in 50 games, with 14 it happened 3x in 10. I didn't lose a single match because I didn't draw a Fractal when I needed it, meanwhile that extra pillar was golden (esp. starting out and when recovering from Fractal). Opening a hand with 7 Pillars also was no problem and almost if not always resulted in a win. The Lobo is icing and allowed me to beat 4/5 reflection shield matches by hitting my own psions until/if the AI upgraded their shield (usually to Hope or Spines) allowing me to amass regular psions to win faster.

My record should have been 41/9 but within my first 10 games I lost due to reading 1 charge on my Dim too early in the round, making the mistake of summoning the 2 psions (I thought) would win the round but not making it that far because my Dim chain broke and the AI worked some magic to keep 7 HP. 6/10 of my losses were due to Chimera finishers, the other 3 to my draw order more than anything else. I usually won when my hand was filled with Nightmare junk by sitting on my own draws until I voided my hand enough to Fractal psions in good number, discarding 1 more junk once I did. I may have lost to it once when it came at a bad time. Lost once during a Cloak while I couldn't Lobo anything. The drop rate was phenomenal. Made me very happy. My score also shot to 1,970 from 1,027. Will be adding more stats with this deck soon.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 02:22:06 pm by Apoch the Mad »

Offline Apoch the Mad

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1124946#msg1124946
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2014, 12:19:00 pm »
Same as above so I won't repost the deck image to save clutter:

Modified Psiontal deck substituting Lobo+15th Aether Pillar for 6th Psion+4th Fractal

W: 34   L: 16   W%: .68   TTW: 13.94   EM: 0/40   EM%: 0.00%   UEI: 2,248.08
U: 02   N: 10   (2/10 Rare)         Turns(wins): 474   Electrum(wins): 1,008

(N: is for total Non-Upped cards won)

My win rate dropped through reckless play. I often chose 2 psions over a dim shield and in some games that allowed me to get low enough to be burst before I could ramp enough damage. Thinking time, and therefore games, went by faster, and judging by my time played compared to the 80% win rate sample, I spent a little less than half of the time, meaning I could theoretically produce 68 net wins in the time it took me to get 40 from the previous sample. My spin luck wasn't nearly as good but that's RNG reminding me the laws still apply, and it's still double the horrid rates I got with my 110 game pool (albeit only 45 spins). Part of that increased Win Rate, part of that is more average RNG rates, but hey, no surprise there. I acquired an Elite Mummy I'd like to try in my HBGB deck now that I decided on Mummy over Arsenic anyways.

Offline Leodip

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1125379#msg1125379
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2014, 06:50:57 pm »
I thought of creating an entirely new topic, but instead decided to post it here because it's not like it needed discussion or something, and this being the Halfblood Stats Thread made it appropriate to be here.
I decided to test the TTF versus AI4s to understand how fast a deck, approximatively, needs to be if it has no protections in order to overcome AI4s.
I used XenoSim with the following deck:
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 8pl

(I'll explain later why I used this decklist)
I ran 19973 games (more on the number later) and it resulted into an average of 9.579282030741501 TTF. Only for the record, 19115 of those games were EMs, meaning that 858 weren't EMs.

I used that deck because:
1.It needed to be inoffensive, of course;
2.Needed to feed Devourers if AI played them, I decided that it would have been a better choice than to not feed them at all, because it may have altered the speed of the deck;
3.Shouldn't, as much as possible, lose due to deckout, because the nature of the study is to how fast a rush deck needs to be in order to kill AI4s, if you lose by deckout the whole point in that would be missing, and opted to resist to deckouts.

The number of game may look strange due to two things:
1.Low number of games (lesser issue), but I ran the game 1000 at time and it looked like the data was constant, so I decided to stop there;
2.Not a rounded up number of games (major issue).
It's not like I ran 19973 games, I already said I got the data 1000 at time, so it should be 20000 if anything. Indeed, I DID run 20000 games, but the AI lost, you read that right, LOST, 27 games. I decided not to round that up by adding other games.

Full stats:
Player
Wins: 27
Winrate: 0.135 %
Average TTW: 11.851851851851851
EMs: 3
EM rate: 11.11111111111111 %

Computer
Wins: 19973
Winrate: 99.865 %
Average TTW: 9.579282030741501
EMs: 19115
EM rate: 95.70420067090572 %

I thought XenoSim had some issues while reading those stats, but I managed to explain something of that:
The 838 non-EM AI's wins couldn't be explained with SoSac, given that, as far as I know, Shards aren't allowed into randomization of the decks. I then gave it some thought and realized that, mostly, those non-EMs may be explained with Singularities which can, and most likely will, get vampire on top of their antimattered attack. A little part of that may be due to PU'd dolls on my side of the field because of Pandemoniums. That's unlikely, though.
As for my 27 wins, they must have been due to deck out. I couldn't come up with another excuse (aside a PU'd Doll with an high amount of poison on it or something like that, expecially given the relatively low TTW) if not a deckout due to Time decks overdrawing without having Eternity or enough quanta to keep an Eternity loop. I find Singularities kills to be highly improbable due to the AI having to play either two SNs or three Novae and not winning after that much. However the EMs may be explained by Chrcord.


Aside those strange numbers, I think I can finally say that a deck which can perform 8-turns kills and has some PC, possibly, can do well in AI4.
Spoiler for Hidden:
Although, the whole tests were more for the hell of it.

Offline serprex

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1125428#msg1125428
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2014, 11:34:37 pm »
Pandemonium doesn't PU own creatures to opponent's field

Offline CuCN

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1125439#msg1125439
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2014, 02:09:17 am »
Besides, the AI wouldn't play Pandemonium against a creatureless opponent.

Offline Leodip

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1125472#msg1125472
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2014, 08:05:26 am »
Besides, the AI wouldn't play Pandemonium against a creatureless opponent.
Ever fought the AI3 who plays PandaDolls? He does. Even if I am creatureless, although the AI probably does that fewer times than needed if theplayer has no creatures

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Re: AI4/Halfblood Stats Thread [1.321] - Decks and Spin Chance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50033.msg1125891#msg1125891
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2014, 09:55:39 am »
upped Mono Life Rush in the OP now with supernovas, vampires and stuff :P
What's the speed of dark?

 

anything
blarg: