[OUTDATED - v1.27] turns to win study 3.0 (version 1.27)

[Gocubbies1212]

I found a deck that wasnt in the list that should be tested.  it's supposed to be faster than da fastest speedbow eva!  I just don't have the resources to make the deck though :/

Link here. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13380.msg179935#msg179935)

deck:

Code: [Select]

6rk 6u1 6u1 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 713 747 747 77g 7ae 7ae 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7gm 7jr 7qb 7qb 80g

Yep this one's on the list at the moment; I'm in the process of testing it as we speak.

Next to be tested is .........And Slightly Faster! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13380.0.html)

awesome.  im trying to decide if i should use that deck or jmdt's Da fastest speedbow eva! for pvp

[willng3]

Extending this study to 1.28 as well since no changes were made to cards, AI, etc. that would have an explicit effect on deck speed/loss rate.

[willng3]

AI setting on high speed.

.........And Slightly Faster! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13380.0.html)

Games: 200

Avg ttw:   6.126

Avg. sec/game: 56.635

Wins: 191

Losses: 9

Ems: 26

posted by - willng3

Code: [Select]

6rk 6u1 6u1 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 713 747 747 77g 7ae 7ae 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7gm 7jr 7qb 7qb 80gGames:  200

avg. Sec/Game:   56.635
Sec/Turn:   9.047124601
Clicks/Game:   15.005
Clicks/Turn:   2.396964856
Score/Min:   19.73161473
Electrum/Min:   20.42023484
   
Time overall (min.):   188.783
Wins:   191
Ems:   26
Losses:   9
Score:   3725
Electrum:   3855
Avg ttw:   6.126

ttw 3:   0
ttw 4:   10
ttw 5:   70
ttw 6:   50
ttw 7:   32
ttw 8:   16
ttw 9:   7
ttw 10:   3
ttw 11:   1
ttw 12:   2
ttw 13:   0
ttw 14:   0
ttw 15:   0
ttw 16:   0

First deck to be tested in 1.28!
This deck is so nice when it gets the proper cards at the beginning of a duel.  7/9 of the losses here were solely from not drawing a Pendulum or a Supernova until late in the game; the other two were due to Dim Shield chaining by the Mono Aether Elder and early Maxwell's Demons from the / Elder.  Otherwise it just steamrolled the AI completely.  Although the number of losses increased by 5 since the 1.26 update, the TTW value stayed roughly about the same.
Next to be tested is Pepoker (UUSEM) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15361.0.html)

[mrbarbarian]

After the update to ai3 what would be a target ttw for a new ai3 grinder? I have a few ideas that quite consistently get 6/7 ttw but I want to know if this is worth following after the update or if its way too slow.

[Toge111]

Perhaps for grinding purposes we should concentrate on decks that have pretty good chances to actually achieve EM. EM win is more valuable if it doesn't take twice as long to achieve compared to normal win.

Anyway, let me propose a new deck to test. This was in "PvP decks" section, but reportedly has been used successfully in AI3 too:

Vader Sader (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18038.0.html)

[willng3]

After the update to ai3 what would be a target ttw for a new ai3 grinder? I have a few ideas that quite consistently get 6/7 ttw but I want to know if this is worth following after the update or if its way too slow.

6/7 TTW ranges from pretty good for an upped deck to very good for an unupped.  But this is only assuming that it's extremely consistent at receiving those values.

Perhaps for grinding purposes we should concentrate on decks that have pretty good chances to actually achieve EM. EM win is more valuable if it doesn't take twice as long to achieve compared to normal win.

Anyway, let me propose a new deck to test. This was in "PvP decks" section, but reportedly has been used successfully in AI3 too:

Vader Sader (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18038.0.html)

Any deck listed on the previous TTW Studies is almost guaranteed to be retested for this study, Vader Sader included.  It's just a matter of us getting around to testing it.

As a side note:  I myself am trying to stick to unupped decks and non-EM type upped decks because it seems that most people would prefer to take stats for 200 games when they're personally benefiting from it somehow, with the most benefit coming from 200 test games with a fast EM deck.  So while I -can- do Vader Sader, it's not at the height of my priority list right now.

[Toge111]

Any deck listed on the previous TTW Studies is almost guaranteed to be retested for this study, Vader Sader included.  It's just a matter of us getting around to testing it.

As a side note:  I myself am trying to stick to unupped decks and non-EM type upped decks because it seems that most people would prefer to take stats for 200 games when they're personally benefiting from it somehow, with the most benefit coming from 200 test games with a fast EM deck.  So while I -can- do Vader Sader, it's not at the height of my priority list right now.

- That's nice of you to let others get the literal benefit from testing. What I'm trying to say is that there are many ways to build fast decks, but including ones that have possibility of EM is much more beneficial for the user who is reading this thread. Likely he's wondering which decks would be good springboards to build other decks. Unupped deck testing is also very good for new players.

TADAbow is surprisingly good. Not only is it fast, but the control element and heals make it consistent and excellent choice for farming. Not only that, but those upped cards are used in many other FG and PvP decks. As a new player I was constantly torn apart by the many possibilities and cool-looking decks I would like to build, but the foundation has to be in solid way to gain some money. As of now I would recommend new players to build themselves TADAbow for AI3 grinding.

[willng3]

Any deck listed on the previous TTW Studies is almost guaranteed to be retested for this study, Vader Sader included.  It's just a matter of us getting around to testing it.

As a side note:  I myself am trying to stick to unupped decks and non-EM type upped decks because it seems that most people would prefer to take stats for 200 games when they're personally benefiting from it somehow, with the most benefit coming from 200 test games with a fast EM deck.  So while I -can- do Vader Sader, it's not at the height of my priority list right now.

- That's nice of you to let others get the literal benefit from testing. What I'm trying to say is that there are many ways to build fast decks, but including ones that have possibility of EM is much more beneficial for the user who is reading this thread. Likely he's wondering which decks would be good springboards to build other decks. Unupped deck testing is also very good for new players.

TADAbow is surprisingly good. Not only is it fast, but the control element and heals make it consistent and excellent choice for farming. Not only that, but those upped cards are used in many other FG and PvP decks. As a new player I was constantly torn apart by the many possibilities and cool-looking decks I would like to build, but the foundation has to be in solid way to gain some money. As of now I would recommend new players to build themselves TADAbow for AI3 grinding.

I already understand all of that.
My reasoning for leaving EM decks to other people goes a bit further than me being self-sacrificing, but I won't step into that topic for now.

Something that needs to be kept in mind is that this is the Turns to Win Study; stats such as score and Electrum earned are nice for comparison's sake but they are not the main focus here.  We try to provide information that is the most beneficial for other users because we really do try to be helpful, but we must keep that one goal in mind.  Therefore decks such as Vader Sader may be pushed further down my priority list because I already have an idea of where it stands TTW-wise.

Regardless, because you have requested that it be tested I will set my sights on Vader Sader as soon as I am finished with Pepoker.

[mrbarbarian]

After the update to ai3 what would be a target ttw for a new ai3 grinder? I have a few ideas that quite consistently get 6/7 ttw but I want to know if this is worth following after the update or if its way too slow.

6/7 TTW ranges from pretty good for an upped deck to very good for an unupped.  But this is only assuming that it's extremely consistent at receiving those values.

Yeah, Id work to improve them though first, so far theyre all rough ideas which could do with refining, where do I submit one for testing if I reach a point where Im happy with it?

By the way, what is the score gain for em against ai3?

[willng3]

After the update to ai3 what would be a target ttw for a new ai3 grinder? I have a few ideas that quite consistently get 6/7 ttw but I want to know if this is worth following after the update or if its way too slow.

6/7 TTW ranges from pretty good for an upped deck to very good for an unupped.  But this is only assuming that it's extremely consistent at receiving those values.

Yeah, Id work to improve them though first, so far theyre all rough ideas which could do with refining, where do I submit one for testing if I reach a point where Im happy with it?

By the way, what is the score gain for em against ai3?

You can submit it here, but first you'll need:
1)  To post the deck somewhere in the forums.  You'll also need to make sure it's original enough to warrant its own deck thread.
2)  You'll need to record the Turns to Win for the deck for at least 50 games and then post your findings and the link to the deck's thread here once it's been posted.  Depending on how the stats look, we'll decide the priority in which it should be tested.

Keep in mind that it's usually a good idea to wait for feedback on a deck before beginning a TTW study on the deck; I usually find that there's at least one important thing that I miss when I first create a deck that someone points out to me at some point in time.

When in doubt:  Follow hrmmm's guidelines on the first post of this thread.

Aside:  Score gain for an EM is 35.

[willng3]

AI setting on high speed.

Pepoker (UUSEM) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15361.0.html)

Games: 200

Avg ttw:   9.842

Avg. sec/game: 103.550

Wins: 158

Losses: 42

Ems: 76

posted by - willng3

Code: [Select]

5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c5 5c5 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8Games:  200

avg. Sec/Game:   103.550
Sec/Turn:   9.337240757
Clicks/Game:   36.630
Clicks/Turn:   3.302975654
Score/Min:   10.45002414
Electrum/Min:   11.55094157
   
Time overall (min.):   345.167
Wins:   158
Ems:   76
Losses:   42
Score:   3607
Electrum:   3987
Avg ttw:   9.842

ttw 3:   0
ttw 4:   0
ttw 5:   0
ttw 6:   2
ttw 7:   26
ttw 8:   31
ttw 9:   34
ttw 10:   21
ttw 11:   11
ttw 12:   13
ttw 13:   4
ttw 14:   4
ttw 15:   3
ttw 16:   3
ttw 17:   2
ttw 18:   0
ttw 19:   1
ttw 20:   1
ttw 21:   0
ttw 22:   0
ttw 23:   2
ttw 24:   0

Okay I need to explain a few things so that people don't get the wrong idea here.  Firstly, I played for speed, not EMs meaning that I EM'd when I could, but when a win was available for me I did not prolong the duel by another turn for the possibility of an EM.  This probably meant that there was a possibility to gain about 5 more EMs here If I had gone that route.  Secondly, there are several cases where I knew that I was going to lose but played the game through nevertheless.  Therefore I could have shaved a few minutes off of my time if I wasn't going for completion.
So many Elders are ragequit worthy now if they get a fast start on you.  The / and Mono Elders were the ones that gave me the most trouble.  Scarabs eat the Rustlers, stopping you from generating and then the Pharaohs produce more Scarabs to give them more HP to eat the Dragons.  Bonds keep you from killing it very often.  Mono has Otys to kill Rustlers, Gravity Shield to stop Dragons, and Armagios to keep the damage away from the opponent.  I've only had 1 instance where I was able to still win against the Oty/Gravity Shield combo and it took 23 turns to do.  I also found it amusing that I had to add about 11 more rows to my TTW Spreadsheet because of the lengthy games this deck played
Next to be tested is Vader Sader (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18038.0.html)
AI setting on high speed.

Vader Sader (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18038.0.html)

Games: 200

Avg ttw:   8.467

Avg. sec/game: 80.195

Wins: 184

Losses: 16

Ems: 127

posted by - willng3

Code: [Select]

7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7k5 7k5 7k5 7k5 7k5 7k5 7la 7la 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7tb 7tb 7tb 7tb 7tbGames:   200
   
avg. Sec/Game:   80.195
Sec/Turn:   9.297971014
Clicks/Game:   17.810
Clicks/Turn:   2.064927536
Score/Min:   19.73315045
Electrum/Min:   22.10861026
   
Time overall (min.):   267.317
Wins:   311
Ems:   127
Losses:   16
Score:   5275
Electrum:   5910
Avg ttw:   8.467

ttw 3:   0
ttw 4:   0
ttw 5:   0
ttw 6:   18
ttw 7:   53
ttw 8:   38
ttw 9:   28
ttw 10:   20
ttw 11:   16
ttw 12:   4
ttw 13:   3
ttw 14:   3
ttw 15:   0
ttw 16:   0
ttw 17:   0
ttw 18:   1
ttw 19:   0
ttw 20:   0
ttw 21:   0
ttw 22:   0
ttw 23:   0

Big weaknesses to this deck are Gravity Shield, Mutation, and Maxwell's Demon.  So frustrating trying to play out a game with those staring you in the face.  Other nuisances are Dim Shield chains WITH PU'd Vaders/Daggers attacking you at the same time and opponent Crusaders Endowing your Daggers to beat you over the head with.  Rage Potions can be annoying when you don't have the quanta/cards to super buff your Daggers/Crusaders.  Other than that it's pretty smooth sailing; it's pretty resistant to most CC, and Pandemonium barely manages to faze it most of the time (although Freeze, Ice Bolt, and Rewind are all annoying as heck).  EM rate is 69% for those who want to know.
Next to be tested is 'Time' to rush (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21612.0.html)

[pikachufan2164]

Tested on high speed AI.

PvP Graboid Rainbow (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,7528.0.html)

Games: 200

Avg ttw: 8.651

Avg. sec/game: 74.160

Wins: 195 (97.50%)

Losses: 5

EMs: 9 (4.62%)

posted by - pikachufan2164

Code: [Select]

4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 52q 55q 55q 590 590 590 590 590 5c1 5c1 5f6 5f6 5i7 5og 5og 61q 61q

Score gained: 3328 Score/game: 16.640 Score/min: 13.463 Electrum gained (no spins): 3373 Electrum/game (no spins): 16.865 Electrum/min (no spins): 13.645 Electrum gained (with spins): 4343 Electrum/game (with spins): 21.715 Electrum/min (with spins): 17.569 Time overall (min.): 247.200

ttw 3: 0 ttw 4: 0 ttw 5: 0 ttw 6: 14 ttw 7: 45 ttw 8: 53 ttw 9: 33 ttw 10: 20 ttw 11: 13 ttw 12: 7 ttw 13: 4 ttw 14: 3 ttw 15: 2 ttw 16: 1 ttw 17: 0

Since most of the AI3 decks now have a decent amount of creature control, they have this tendency to get rid of the first few creatures you throw out at them. It may be advantageous to bait out CC with your Spirits and Lycans before evolving your Graboids.

Particular nuisances: Pandemonium, Lightning, Basilisk Blood, Freeze, Rage Potion, Shockwave (all nasty forms of creature control that your creatures can't handle too well), Sundial (slows you down, especially since AI knows how to chain them now), creatures with >5 HP (they won't die to a single Lightning), Shields (Procrastination, Dimensional, and Wings in particular -- they slow you down quite a bit).