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kirchj33

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg353808#msg353808
« Reply #84 on: June 20, 2011, 12:27:13 am »
I don't think you could be more wrong, in that case. Adding SoG's changes it a LOT more than removing one Fractal. Main reason for this being that with 3 Electrocutors and only 8 quanta sources, it's slowed down significantly in the early game by SoG's.
Oh Higs... tact never was your strong suite.  We can easily add a variant after collecting preliminary data on the two decks.  We can take data on Perpetual Light and compared it to a 2 dragon version.

Offline Higurashi

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg353819#msg353819
« Reply #85 on: June 20, 2011, 12:48:34 am »
I'm afraid you know nothing of that, as it's not a question of aptitude: it's a question of application. Tact is to be applied in the right situations (i.e. kissing arse in the business world). Here, it has no room since there's no reason for you to be offended.

If you just made random changes, that would've had to be brought to light. If you meant to just change certain parts in order to test how 6 Fractals work, that's a different reason than stated and changes the general method for modifying decks that are up for testing.
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1world24

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg353825#msg353825
« Reply #86 on: June 20, 2011, 01:04:10 am »
Wondering if I may help with the testing?

Offline Jangoo

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg353829#msg353829
« Reply #87 on: June 20, 2011, 01:08:39 am »


The Rol/Hope version currently being tested has been a standard-edit of the deck eversince,
at least for people who knew how to make the deck perform best when it was en vogue  ;)
There is no "random" change or whatever and the recent FGei-result doesn't exactly say that it sucks so ...

Also:

Variants should be discussed within each individual deck post itself and this is not the venue for any disagreement of variants used.
Lol



200 games, soon will be 300.

Figured I'd post it, since I finally got a game against Neptune (exactly 200 :))

[...]

Current spreadsheet: http://www.mediafire.com/?si1p4xpe5545nt8

Good work Onizuka.

But please don't post the xls.file when you are not done with the set yet ... When I go over
the posts later it'll be confusing to figure out which one is the final one, a new set, invalid for
whatever reason ... and so on and so on. In fact, can you edit away that link and repost it when you
hit those 300?


Offline Higurashi

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  • Æther in Æternum enim Æquilibrio
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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg353835#msg353835
« Reply #88 on: June 20, 2011, 01:22:48 am »
I sincerely doubt it. I've never seen anyone play Turbo with 6 Fractals since people realised they could mod in SoG's. Since kirch said he wanted to keep it as close to the original as possible, I have to point out adding SoG's changes it much more than anything else. Hence random.
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Aether is the prime Element present in all things, providing space, connection and balance for all Elements to exist.
Aether represents the sense of joy and union, and the ultimate potential of all things.

kirchj33

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg353878#msg353878
« Reply #89 on: June 20, 2011, 02:12:26 am »
I did my best to post popular decks in forms that were accepted as optimal as determined through my own experiences and from speaking with other veteran players.  If I am off by a card or two in the whole thing, people who did not organize the study themselves or speak up earlier will have to live with it.  There will be a phase (hopefully soon), after we've gathered enough data on the initial decks, for testing variants.

Even in reference to Turbo, it would be hard to argue that a deck without SoG's is going to outperform one with a couple of utility SoG's.  I assumed that was common sense, hence the change there.  Also, switching to a pend/pillar split was assumed common sense.

The 5 vs. 6 fractal debate is not a hard and fast one, and I prefer to let the numbers decide in the long run.  Sure, for things like fractix 4 or 5 is optimal, where filling the field is your ultimate goal, but for RoL/Hope's which need to fight CC and fuel their hope asap, 6 is in the picture.  I will let the numbers tell the interesting story.

In fact, can you edit away that link and repost it when you
hit those 300?
I think Oni was joking about the 300 part.... at least I hope for his sake he hits Neptune sooner than that.  Unless.... he just loves RoL/Hope THAT much.  The preliminary numbers certainly would support his love of the deck if he just feels like doing 300 for the money.

twixy10

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg353890#msg353890
« Reply #90 on: June 20, 2011, 02:30:21 am »
I think Oni was joking about the 300 part.... at least I hope for his sake he hits Neptune sooner than that.  Unless.... he just loves RoL/Hope THAT much.  The preliminary numbers certainly would support his love of the deck if he just feels like doing 300 for the money.
I don't think he is joking about the 300 part XD. After 199 games (because he hit neptune the 200e game) he encounters neptune once, it is quite possible that he has to play around 100 games for 2 encounters with Neptune :P

kirchj33

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg353896#msg353896
« Reply #91 on: June 20, 2011, 02:37:53 am »
Wondering if I may help with the testing?
Send an application in following the guidlines in the OP and you will be considered.  Simple as that!

Offline Onizuka

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg353952#msg353952
« Reply #92 on: June 20, 2011, 05:54:16 am »
300 games, here ya go!


  deck     Turbo Speed False God Farming   
  players     Onizuka   
  version    1.27 
  win-rate     46%   
  $ track ?    enabled 
  win-rate (n)     45.61%   
  games    300 
  Score/h     517   
  win-loss-(EM)     138-162-(37)   
  Score/h (n)    500   
  time (h:m:s)     14:49:17   
  FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html  4093   
  min/game     02:58   
  FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html  3992   
      Statmasta™4000                                                                *assumed card-spin/win: 35%      
      

  score/h  FGei(c)   Statmasta™4000    wins losses skips EM/Wins
   -174
   447
   97
   284
   1700
   1658
   974
   972
   -231
   -401
   1234
   85
   -559
   -240   
   -812
   473
   59
   1082
   739
   -906
   717
   141
   -1354
   1473
   975
   53
   429
   99
   1220
   2019
   4023
   3735
   2578
   8634
   8951
   5599
   5552
   1454
   174
   6575
   2615
   139
   1660   
   1017
   4373
   1656
   5410
   4428
   -906
   4223
   3794
   -1354
   7288
   4936
   1531
   4831
   2878
   7667
Akebono
Chaos Lord
Dark Matter
Decay
Destiny
Divine Glory
Dream Catcher
Elidnis
Eternal Phoenix
Ferox
Fire Queen
Gemini
Graviton
Hecate
Hermes
Incarnate
Jezebel
Lionheart
Miracle
Morte
Neptune
Obliterator
Octane
Osiris
Paradox
Rainbow
Scorpio
Seism
Serket
   2
   11
   4
   4
   12 
   7
   8
   10
   2
   1
   6
   3
   1
   2
   1
   4
   2
   9
   8
   
   2
   2
   
   8
   6
   2
   6
   3
   12
    9
    12
    8
    8
     
   
    4
    3
    8
    11
    1
    8
    13
    8
    8
    6
    6
    2
    4
    6
    1
    4
    4
    1
   
    6
    8
    7
    6
   
   
 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
     1
     
     
     3
     4
     1
     3
     2
     
     
     2
     1
     
     
     
     1
     1
     5
     2
     
     1
     
     
     5
     2
     1
     
     
     2
   
      
300 spreadsheet: http://www.mediafire.com/?og0id68gduky5zm
You're just as selfish as I am. You're just not as good at it yet.

Offline Jangoo

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg354083#msg354083
« Reply #93 on: June 20, 2011, 04:18:40 pm »


So much for joking about    ;D

But 4000 FGei! Damn!
I was expecting the deck to run in 3000 AT MOST and now this.

Thanks for editing out those preliminary files Onizuka ...
Here I was already searching for that first post of yours and wondering which
other deck it was you had tested. Turns out it was Rol/Hope at 100 games lol.



Offline Higurashi

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg354106#msg354106
« Reply #94 on: June 20, 2011, 05:42:52 pm »
Incredible. Even with specific AI updates to combat RoL/Hope, it's still undisputed after such a long time. Just baffling.
:aether  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/guilds/991-thunderbolts-ho!-991/ :aether
Aether is the prime Element present in all things, providing space, connection and balance for all Elements to exist.
Aether represents the sense of joy and union, and the ultimate potential of all things.

Offline Onizuka

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Re: FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25609.msg354667#msg354667
« Reply #95 on: June 21, 2011, 09:17:50 pm »
Initial 100 data, go!


  deck     Perpetual Light   
  players     Onizuka   
  version    1.27 
  win-rate     47%   
  $ track ?    enabled 
  win-rate (n)     n.a.   
  games    100 
  Score/h     538   
  win-loss-(EM)     47-53-(17)   
  Score/h (n)    n.a.   
  time (h:m:s)     05:21:29   
  FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html  3932   
  min/game     03:13   
  FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html  n.a.   
      Statmasta™4000                                                                *assumed card-spin/win: 35%      
      
I'll be updating this post when I get to 200 and 300.

200:
  deck     Perpetual Light   
  players     Onizuka   
  version    1.27 
  win-rate     49.5%   
  $ track ?    enabled 
  win-rate (n)     48.64%   
  games    200 
  Score/h     580   
  win-loss-(EM)     99-101-(40)   
  Score/h (n)    570   
  time (h:m:s)     11:13:17   
  FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html  4004   
  min/game     03:22   
  FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html  3992   
      Statmasta™4000                                                                *assumed card-spin/win: 35%      
      
I'm even getting it normalized at 200 now :P

300:

  deck     Perpetual Light   
  players     Onizuka   
  version    1.27 
  win-rate     43.67%   
  $ track ?    enabled 
  win-rate (n)     42.94%   
  games    300 
  Score/h     449   
  win-loss-(EM)     131-169-(49)   
  Score/h (n)    434   
  time (h:m:s)     16:35:55   
  FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html  3505   
  min/game     03:19   
  FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html  3452   
      Statmasta™4000                                                                *assumed card-spin/win: 35%      
      

"
  score/h  FGei(c)   Statmasta™4000    wins losses skips EM/Wins
   468
   238
   570
   119
   1154
   1158
   342
   568
   -336
   -804
   1608
   434
   -534
   483   
   -633
   487
   -219
   1084
   774
   -175
   -322
   319
   -998
   965
   1054
   356
   310
   565
   1049
   4086
   3594
   4704
   1707
   6547
   6271
   3480
   3614
   607
   -804
   7289
   2751
   266
   3959   
   -633
   3980
   387
   5702
   4213
   1861
   226
   3565
   -998
   4946
   5732
   3350
   3548
   3970
   6049
Akebono
Chaos Lord
Dark Matter
Decay
Destiny
Divine Glory
Dream Catcher
Elidnis
Eternal Phoenix
Ferox
Fire Queen
Gemini
Graviton
Hecate
Hermes
Incarnate
Jezebel
Lionheart
Miracle
Morte
Neptune
Obliterator
Octane
Osiris
Paradox
Rainbow
Scorpio
Seism
Serket
   4
   3
   5
   3
   13 
   9
   3
   5
   1
   
   11
   4
   1
   7
   
   4
   1
   10
   11
   3
   1
   2
   
   7
   8
   3
   3
   7
   2
    8
    5
    4
    8
    2 
    2
    4
    5
    7
    12
   
    4
    11
    7
    10
    6
    7
    2
    5
    11
    10
    3
    11
    4
    2
    4
    5
    9
    1
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
     3
     
     
     2
     2
     3
     
     3
     
     
     9
     2
     
     1
     
     2
     
     4
     5
     
     
     
     
     6
     2
     
     
     4
     1
"      
      
It got murdered. Absolutely murdered.

Excel sheet: http://www.mediafire.com/?767j29putsc97lc
      
You're just as selfish as I am. You're just not as good at it yet.

 

anything
blarg: