[OUTDATED] FG Efficiency Study - Applying statistics to all of the myths

[Jenkar]

Double posting.
Gonna do some minor testing with the data (after makin' a copy), but i believe FGei can be INCREASED BY TONS by skipping. (and it is - see below)

deck	Liquid Antimatter
players	Jenkar

version	1.27		win-rate	21,11%
$ track ?	enabled		win-rate (n)	19,85%
games	270		Score/h	-61
win-loss-(EM)	57-213-(30)		Score/h (n)	-112
time (h:m:s)	08:44:03		FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html)	2496
min/game	01:56		FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html)	2281

      Statmasta™4000                                                                *assumed card-spin/win: 35%

score/h	FGei(c)	Statmasta™4000	wins	losses	skips	EM/Wins
1499    -262    81    -19636    459    -24387    -23351    -579    -1337    -1889    -3251    463    -740    -806       -596    573    -840    -870    1539    536    947    1497    -773    -22950    74    176    -1554    -1394    -1843	8917    1512    2281    -19636    2956    -24387    -23351    401    -1337    -1889    -3251    3695    175    -806       1197    4187    -840    -870    7755    4238    4939    7649    -773    -22950    2055    2239    -1554    -1394    -1843	Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket	3    1    2        4             1                2    1        1    4            11    7    6    7            3    4	2     6     7     8     5      7     8     12     8     12     9     3     13     3     7     4     9     5     4     8     3     3     3     17     7     9     12     14     5		1      1      2            3                  1                        1                        1                  8      1      4      5                        2

http://www.mediafire.com/?rplfnpdwiy65znv

[Rember]

Wow, that absolutely blows Fire Lance Sudden Killer away. I wonder if Flay 'Em will be able to compare favorably after normalized stats.

[Onizuka]

From where I'm standing, no way in hell will Flay 'EM be able to match it. Doesn't have the speed/winrate to get there.

But we'll see after ~200 games when I'm done this weekend.

[Jenkar]

Wow, that absolutely blows Fire Lance Sudden Killer away. I wonder if Flay 'Em will be able to compare favorably after normalized stats.

I Just made my tiny experiment.
If you skip : Decay, Divine Glory, Dream Catcher, Eternal Phoenix, Elidnis, Ferox, Fire Queen, Graviton, Jezebel, Lionheart, Octane, Osiris, Scorpio, Seism, Serket, you'll have a FGei(cn) of more than 3000. My mind is blown.

Using the same method, using skips given by Onizuka, Turbo haz a 4500 FGei(cn).

Also, i believe skips should be defined by testers (for the data execution, not recording).

[omegareaper7]

Wow, that absolutely blows Fire Lance Sudden Killer away. I wonder if Flay 'Em will be able to compare favorably after normalized stats.

I Just made my tiny experiment.
If you skip : Decay, Divine Glory, Dream Catcher, Eternal Phoenix, Elidnis, Ferox, Fire Queen, Graviton, Jezebel, Lionheart, Octane, Osiris, Scorpio, Seism, Serket, you'll have a FGei(cn) of more than 3000. My mind is blown.

Using the same method, using skips given by Onizuka, Turbo haz a 4500 FGei(cn).

Also, i believe skips should be defined by testers (for the data execution, not recording).

How good do you think the upped version, with chaos powers, would do?

[Jenkar]

It'll certainly be better. But not by much.
Overall, i believe that with CP, i'd autoskip :
Divine Glory, Decay, Ferox, Jezebel, Lionheart, Seism, Osiris, Scorpio, Serket.
All others either become doable or easier. I'll test it when i have all needed cards upped.

[uncletex]

The Essential FG Farmer - 200 Games - Normalized Stats

deck	The Essential Newbie FG Farmer
players	Uncletex

version	1.27		win-rate	10%
$ track ?	enabled		win-rate (n)	9.66%
games	200		Score/h	-355
win-loss-(EM)	20-180-(0)		Score/h (n)	-355
time (h:m:s)	10:50:06		FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html)	339
min/game	03:15		FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html)	304

      Statmasta™4000                                                                *assumed card-spin/win: 35%      
      
"

score/h	FGei(c)	Statmasta™4000	wins	losses	skips	EM/Wins
-939    -371    -985    -569    -4    -884    -994    -333    -772    210    53    -626    -628    -829       -507    492    -846    -143    -372    -655    81    -788    -860    -440    -89    -547    -887    -1019    5	-939    500    -985    -569    801    -884    -994    -333    -772    2259    1682    -626    -628    -829       615    3724    -846    536    -372    -655    1560    -788    -860    -440    936    -547    -887    -1019    1747	Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket	1            1                     2    3                1    5        1            2                2                2	5     8     11     6     3      6     5     10     7     3     6     4     4     8     8     3     5     5     7     7     4     5     7     3     7     7     11     9     6

"      


It did swing up a bit after my first 100.  On the FGs which did have some victories, there were a few games where if luck had been in my favorite, it would have easily won almost every time...Paradox, Neptune.  Most of these losses came either because they caused too much damage early on...and I had to start playing shields in the 5th round or earlier even to stay alive.  Or, I couldn't get a chain of shields together at all in the end to hold 'em off....if you've got 2 shields or more buried in the last 5 cards, forget it.

I smiled every time I saw Incarnate.  Elidnis ended up sucking way more time per hand before eventually dealing me a loss 11 straight times.  Probably two of these could have turned around for me if the cards had been better.

It can be a really fun deck to play when it's working for you.  It can be a disaster against anybody with Explosion or Steal.

I'd be curious to see a modified version of this deck...maybe with 5 upped cards or something total.  Upg Oty wouldn't really help I don't think too much.  Upgraded towers would...you'd at least be able to play Quint Oty earlier or have some extra laying around for those rounds you need to pull off a Animate, PU, Titan, Quint all in the same round against certain gods.


...tex

[ggabriel2]

It'll certainly be better. But not by much.
Overall, i believe that with CP, i'd autoskip :
Divine Glory, Decay, Ferox, Jezebel, Lionheart, Seism, Osiris, Scorpio, Serket.
All others either become doable or easier. I'll test it when i have all needed cards upped.

I've already got an upped version that I regularly use. If you'd like I could spend a few hours this weekend getting full statistics with it; I already track W/L by god anyhow, so I'd just have to start recording playtime and a few other stats.

[kirchj33]

It'll certainly be better. But not by much.
Overall, i believe that with CP, i'd autoskip :
Divine Glory, Decay, Ferox, Jezebel, Lionheart, Seism, Osiris, Scorpio, Serket.
All others either become doable or easier. I'll test it when i have all needed cards upped.

I've already got an upped version that I regularly use. If you'd like I could spend a few hours this weekend getting full statistics with it; I already track W/L by god anyhow, so I'd just have to start recording playtime and a few other stats.

ggabe.  If you would like to include a new deck, please post the deck code and take stats in STATMASTA if you would like to add a new deck.  Including a link if it is posted somewhere would be great too if you are trying to build a case for adding a deck.

Thanks to everyone for the recent influx of stats.  We almost have normalized data on every deck now!

Uncletex gets a medal of honor!

[ggabriel2]

I'm using a slightly different variant:

Code: [Select]

6rs 6rs 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 7te 7te 7te 7te 7te 7te
For comparison's sake, as kirchj33 requests in the OP I'm not skipping anything until the moment it becomes absolutely impossible. Divine Glory is literally impossible from the get go, so he gets skipped right away. Ferox, Fire Queen, and Osiris are probably impossible in practice, but I'm sticking with those fights anyhow until either their healing outstrips my maximum damage output/Osiris gets a trebuchet out. Elidnis, Lionheart, and Dream Catcher are all terrible for this deck but potentially beatable (I'm on the fence about Jezebel, because she will steal your towers and prioritize them for Nymph's Tears and wind up with tons of antimatter nymphs.) This is still generally a pretty inefficient measure of grinding capability since there's a fair number of gods that really need to be skipped, but creating a good objective measure of a deck's grinding abilities is problematic in general; besides, it's fairly easy to take a full set of data and estimate the FGei with certain skips.

Eternal Phoenix is actually very doable; chaos power + antimatter on an early dragon gives you a fighting chance. You should be able to manage ~15-20%--still something that should be skipped in actual grinding, though. Seism is even easier, as your total quanta usage is actually pretty small and shriekers are great targets for you.

[Onizuka]

Bleh...something in me today just wouldn't let me farm.

deck	Ray of Lulz
players	Onizuka

version	1.28		win-rate	37%
$ track ?	enabled		win-rate (n)	n.a.
games	100		Score/h	334
win-loss-(EM)	37-63-(17)		Score/h (n)	n.a.
time (h:m:s)	05:18:43		FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html)	3049
min/game	03:11		FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html)	n.a.

      Statmasta™4000                                                                *assumed card-spin/win: 35%      
      
I expect the stats to get better. Not astronomically, but better.

[ggabriel2]

Urf. That was a hell of a lot of grinding.

The upshot, of course, is that I am now substantially richer. Slogging through some of the matches I'd normally skip was a bit soul-crushing, though.

Reposted deck:

Code: [Select]

6rs 6rs 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 7te 7te 7te 7te 7te 7teI've never bothered posting a thread for it because it seems like a fairly straightforward variant of a common enough deck archetype, although I talk a little about it in this older liquid antimatter thread. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11074.msg387272.html#msg387272) Now that I have timed statistics the deck's merits are becoming a bit clearer though, so maybe I should start a new thread for it--some of the tactics needed to get these results are not entirely intuitive and probably bear discussion.

deck	Upped liquid antimatter
players	ggabriel2

version	1.283		win-rate	40%
$ track ?	enabled		win-rate (n)	41.39%
games	300		Score/h	589
win-loss-(EM)	120-180-(68)		Score/h (n)	630
time (h:m:s)	11:50:34		FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html)	4571
min/game	02:22		FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html)	4715

      Statmasta™4000                                                                *assumed card-spin/win: 35%

score/h	FGei(c)	Statmasta™4000	wins	losses	skips	EM/Wins
1625    -184    794    -989    1161    -36000    -952    -689    155    -890    -312    1783    542    944       382    1449    -903    267    1759    1329    2277    2129    1048    -1038    1474    471    -1150    1273    625	9880    1683    5014    -989    6245    -36000    -952    -689    3365    -890    964    8500    4309    6737       3942    7459    -903    3010    8858    7445    9979    10237    6421    -1038    6931    3882    -1150    7068    5236	Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket	9    2    6        10                 5        1    5    5    4    4    5        5    5    6    12    6    3        10    4        9    4	4     9     7     12     5      12     12     10     14     14     6     1     7     5     9     2     9     8     1     3         1     2     4         5     8     4     6		2      1      4            6                        3                  4      2      2      3      3            1      3      3      12      4      1            7      1            4      2

If these numbers seem unusual, I should reiterate that I've got several hundred more untimed matches (with skips) and the overall winrate I'm getting here matches up closely with extensive prior experience--some individual gods are higher/lower than expected, but the random variance on either side seems to pretty much balance each other out. The one win against Fire Queen is a straight up fluke; I've been habitually skipping that fight so long I'd forgotten that her deck is just kind of bad. I was a bit surprised I got so many wins against Lionheart, too--I suspect that's partly luck and partly improved tactics. Most everyone else is about as expected or on the low side.

Statmasta spreadsheet download: http://www.mediafire.com/?6m91vajfb916dy0