General Discussion

[Cisco]

Sounds nice. Where can we post the FG decks for the challenge? And have all cards to be upgraded?

check first post

[Scaredgirl]

I suggest increasing the reward each time a God is eliminated.
First God to fall grants 5 points.
Second grants 6 points.
Third grants 7 points, and so on.
After all, the last God standing is probably the hardest to beat. The player who can kill him deserves a higher reward.

That's a great idea. We should definitely do that.

Something like 30/40 minutes per deck. Too much to do it every day. But once per week is no problem.

Oh, man.. that's much longer than I thought. But now that I think about it, it doesn't surprise me one bit. I've done some coding and it ain't easy.

Can we help you in any way? Is it possible for a non-coder to build those decks?

Then what about rewarding the deck designer if no one was able to beat his creation after 1 week?

This is actually something I thought about. We could do it like this:

- 11 players sign up for this challenge (or maybe less if it is possible).
- Each player designs his/her invincible deck
- The challenge starts
- You'll get 5 points for the first kill, 6 for second, 7 for third, etc.
- The player whose decks gets destroyed first gets 5 points, then 6, then 7, etc.

So you'll get points based on how many (on how difficult) decks you beat AND how well your OWN deck design does.

I don't have FTP access at work so the start will have to be in a moment where I'm at home.
That is:
- evening in Europe
- beginning of the afternoon in America
- morning in China/Japan/Australia
Sorry Middle East/India, this will be the middle of the night for you, but I have no other choice.

I guess we have to wait for a few days before we begin so that everyone knows the challenge exists.
Wednesday? Thursday? Next weekend?

Yeah, there is no rush. Lets wait a bit and fine tune this.

Remember I can put whatever I want in the starter builds and in the bazaar. If I remove Quantum Towers there, you'll have no other choice than deal with(out) it
We can also have a "no Sundial, no Bone Wall, no Protect Artifact" week if you want. Would this be challenging enough for you?

That's a good idea. "Banning" some cards will force players to come up with new ideas and will keep the game interesting. Btw Sundials are broken in the trainer so there is no need to ban them.

[turin]

Mmmm
i think we must wait to find a list of really good decks.
That's a major problem! I'm sure any one of us will be nearly unbeatable using graviton with FG powers (knowing what to deflag, what to momentum, when to use rof, bringing some good creature in hand to survive opponent's rofs, etc.), but graviton is still easily beatable: doesnt need a specific deck to be countered.
The same thing will happen with ours i think.
And to find good decks we'll have to test them, making them harder and harder to beat, but beating them! Thus is the problem. Maybe we can just put 11 new FG, changing those who prove to be too easy, and the challenge is to find a deck that can win all of them with good %.
Having to win a specific one is too simple against AI, probably.

Example:
Seism 2.0: use a gravity deck with mark of earth with: 6 protect artifact + diamond shield + lot of Otyughs + shards of gratitude. Done! Or even the classic anti FG rainbow with more protect artifact and no pulvs but discord! (or eternity to retard burrowing) But this kind of deck wont be good against most of the posted decks

Obliterator: same rainbow as seism 2.0, but with maybe some armagio (to redirect grav pulls: but mutants can do it well). Grav/earth deck wont work because of grav pulls too lethal

The Immortal One: a rainbow deck with growing/ablazing focus, fast eating capabilties and good regenerating abilities. Eternity as weapon (needs time to get to a huge amount of damage per turn)

And so on...

Ps: about banning cards: sounds bad. If you make a deck you build it against all cards, not saying "fight it without X" just because this is his weakness

PPS: chrishang, if you keep quantum towers away from your trainer we wont have them to fight against new FGs!!!!

[Scaredgirl]

Example:
Seism 2.0: use a gravity deck with mark of earth with: 6 protect artifact + diamond shield + lot of Otyughs + shards of gratitude. Done! Or even the classic anti FG rainbow with more protect artifact and no pulvs but discord! (or eternity to retard burrowing) But this kind of deck wont be good against most of the posted decks

I doubt neither of those decks would beat Seism 2.0, unless the FG would be really unlucky.

You seem to think that Otyughs will eat everything that the False Gods plays. First of all you are forgetting 12 x Rewind. Secondly you are forgetting that every creature the FG plays, will be able to hit at least once, and that damage does add up.

With your Gravity deck, you have no way of drawing multiple cards while FG is drawing 2 and possible +3 from Hourglasses. This would be a HUGE disadvantage.

I would say that this Gravity deck of yours would have a very slim chance of winning.

I am pretty sure that Seism 2.0 would own the classic Anti-False God deck even if you had the awesome Discord (lol

[turin]

Example:
Seism 2.0: use a gravity deck with mark of earth with: 6 protect artifact + diamond shield + lot of Otyughs + shards of gratitude. Done! Or even the classic anti FG rainbow with more protect artifact and no pulvs but discord! (or eternity to retard burrowing) But this kind of deck wont be good against most of the posted decks

I doubt neither of those decks would beat Seism 2.0, unless the FG would be really unlucky.

You seem to think that Otyughs will eat everything that the False Gods plays. First of all you are forgetting 12 x Rewind. Secondly you are forgetting that every creature the FG plays, will be able to hit at least once, and that damage does add up.

With your Gravity deck, you have no way of drawing multiple cards while FG is drawing 2 and possible +3 from Hourglasses. This would be a HUGE disadvantage.

I would say that this Gravity deck of yours would have a very slim chance of winning.

I am pretty sure that Seism 2.0 would own the classic Anti-False God deck even if you had the awesome Discord (lol

hum
Yes gravity will be smashed, but not rainbow. I wanted gravity to have quanta to re-play Otyughs, but didnt think that with other creatures on ground AI will rewind the wrong ones while destroyng my precious bonewall's top layers
Adding quicksands has a sense: there are really few ways to use them wrongly!

That's it: AI stupidity will make our decks weak . Too easy beating a single one.

And dont touch my discord! (i'm not sure it's good: seems there's a limit to max quanta removable from each element)

[Scaredgirl]

hum
Yes gravity will be smashed, but not rainbow. I wanted gravity to have quanta to re-play Otyughs, but didnt think that with other creatures on ground AI will rewind the wrong ones while destroyng my precious bonewall's top layers
Adding quicksands has a sense: there are really few ways to use them wrongly!

That's it: AI stupidity will make our decks weak . Too easy beating a single one.

And dont touch my discord! (i'm not sure it's good: seems there's a limit to max quanta removable from each element)

Quicksands are way too easy to counter. If a player has ONE Protect Artifact in his starting hand, that will make ALL the Quicksands that the FG has totally useless.

You know it's easy to say on this forum that you will beat all the possible decks anyone can come up with, but it's quite another matter to actually do so. Like I have said before, Zanzarino designed FG decks so that they could be beat. I'm sure that it is possible to design an almost unbeatable FG deck. The key is to make the deck well-rounded and pick cards that the AI knows how to play.

Eventually all decks will be beaten. So what? That's what this challenge is all about!

And yeah.. Discord would suck big time. Or maybe FG will die of laughter when he sees you play one?

[turin]

nooooooooooooo
my discord!

about those decks: we'll see!

[Essence]

Seraph


Mark of Fire
16x Light Tower

12x Shard of Divinity

12x Morning Glory
12x Ray of Light
8x Improved Miracle
2x Mirror Shield

12x Explosion
8x Fire Storm
4x Farenheit

12x Animate Weapon

2x Purify


A 100 card deck obviously designed to take strong advantage of the Shard of Divinity/Miracle synergy, giving it lots of time to build up a huge pile of Fire quanta for use with Farenheit.  Animated Morning Glories provide mass untouchable offense.  A good mix of towers and Rays of Light make quicksand/tsunami decks less viable.   Mirror Shield and Purify round out the passive defense, while Firestorm and Explosion make the enemy's life miserable.

It takes startlingly little quanta to get running, so the low number of towers shouldn't hurt too much.  The idea is to simply take a pounding for a while, putting shards out as you do, until you get low enough to warrant a Miracle which will take the shard-laden false god into the 300+HP range, with plenty of time to earn back the 12 light quanta it needs to cast a new Miracle.

This deck will probably most often lose to a deckout, or to decks that consistently bring out lots of creatures with 2+ attack and 4+HP.  I know from experiments that Ferox owns the non-FG version of this deck for exactly that reason.

[Scaredgirl]

I would personally like to see both Shards banned from False God decks. They are "cheap" cards and too powerful in a False God deck, especially when used with Miracle.

FG's already have 200HP and I think that is enough.

[Bloodshadow]

The most hardest False God deck, eh?

Well... I took this deck from my friend Minnakht from Kongregate. After seeing it, I thought it was pure evil...

Halt: Mark of Aether x3
Total: 100 cards
16 Time Tower
12 Eternity
12 Animate Weapon
12 Anubis
12 Phase Recluse
12 Ray of Light
12 Sundial
12 Improved Miracle

Strategy:
Halt will get out as many Eternities as possible, and use Anubis to immortalize them. Then he will reverse time EVERYTHING you play.
He'll use Sundial to halt enemy creatures when they get past the Eternities, and draw more cards. Even if the stupid AI plays multiple Sundials each turn, it still won't be a problem.
If you get some damage to him, Halt will use Miracle. He will Immortalize his Rays of Light, so you can't kill them; and even if you play Devourers, they'll immediately be reversed.
If he can't get enough damage past, he'll use the Phase Recluses, then immediately Immortalize them.

Hard enough? If you have any ideas of making him harder, please tell me.

[Scaredgirl]

The most hardest False God deck, eh?

Well... I took this deck from my friend Minnakht from Kongregate. After seeing it, I thought it was pure evil...

Halt: Mark of Aether x3
Total: 100 cards
16 Time Tower
12 Eternity
12 Animate Weapon
12 Anubis
12 Phase Recluse
12 Ray of Light
12 Sundial
12 Improved Miracle

Strategy:
Halt will get out as many Eternities as possible, and use Anubis to immortalize them. Then he will reverse time EVERYTHING you play.
He'll use Sundial to halt enemy creatures when they get past the Eternities, and draw more cards. Even if the stupid AI plays multiple Sundials each turn, it still won't be a problem.
If you get some damage to him, Halt will use Miracle. He will Immortalize his Rays of Light, so you can't kill them; and even if you play Devourers, they'll immediately be reversed.
If he can't get enough damage past, he'll use the Phase Recluses, then immediately Immortalize them.

Hard enough? If you have any ideas of making him harder, please tell me.

I made something similar here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,373.msg3069#msg3069 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,373.msg3069#msg3069)

Yeah table full of Flying Eternities is pretty much an automatic win but there are ways to counter that.

[Bloodshadow]

Oh, I know what to do now! Someone should take Uzra's Anti-Control deck, add some modifications, and make it into a God.

Two JOAK DECKS:

Random FG #1: Mark of Light x3
120 Miracles

Random FG #2: Mark of Entropy x3
96 Quantum Towers
6 Protect Artifact
6 Dissipation Field