General Discussion

[Scaredgirl]

Please continue this discussion on this thread: EDIT: link broken, threads merged.

Thank you.

EDIT: Actually can this thread be MOVED there?

[Delreich]

Adding the rules related to FG deck building to the deck design thread would be a good idea, I think.
I don't think QTs should be allowed in the AI decks, because of the bug. Rules don't mention them, but perhaps they're not even in the trainer.
A link to the trainer somewhere around here could also be useful. Edit: http://chriskang.free.fr/trainer/trainer.html

[Scaredgirl]

Adding the rules related to FG deck building to the deck design thread would be a good idea, I think.
I don't think QTs should be allowed in the AI decks, because of the bug. Rules don't mention them, but perhaps they're not even in the trainer.
A link to the trainer somewhere around here could also be useful.

Thanks for the tip. I added False God deck building rules.

Chriskang can customize the trainer so that there are no Quantum Towers (or any other cards that he or we choose).

I didn't give a link to the trainer because we will have 10 different trainers, one for each False Gods. This way you don't have to try to find a specific False God. You just pick the right trainer and you will face that False God every time.

[chriskang]

First, let me say that I love your enthusiasm SG

Then I want to talk about score.
The current rates (10 to 19) basically mean that someone who rushes the 2 first Gods has won if the players after him have 1 victory each.
That was Forfeit's fear on the other thread and if by mistake I make 2 Gods a little bit too easy, this could become true.

I don't want the rates to be 1 to 10, cause this would really make the first Gods count for nothing but I think the good choice is somewhere in between.
Something like 4-13 looks good to me. If you kill 3 gods, you're nearly sure to win. If you kill 2 easy gods, there's still a risk that someone beats you afterward.

I also want to suggest another change that, IMHO, would make the challenge more "casual gamer friendly".
The idea is to give points to player who have successfully killed a God, even if it's not the first time. The award would just be 1 point lower than the previous player.
Example:
  First God to fall: Scorpio, kill by Joe --> Joe gets 4 points (with my rating presented above)
  Jack kills Scorpio --> he gets 3 points (Joe's score minus one cause he's second)
     Incarnate falls, killed by Jane --> Jane gets 5 points (max score, cause she's the first to kill him, compared to Joe score is increased by 1 cause it's the second God to fall)
     John kills Incarnate --> he gets 4 points (Jane minus one)
  Mary kills Scorpio --> she gets 2 points (Jack minus one)

And so on until the score for each God reaches 0.

This calculus would be a bit harder (but not that much, with a good table on the wiki it should be pretty clear) and the advantage that I see is here:
Even if you miss the start for some reasons, or if you want to take your time to design good builds, you still have a chance to hit a good score by killing methodically ALL FG.
By being fourth on all victory, you'll get a total score of 55 which is probably much more than someone who was very quick at the beginning but was only able to kill 5 gods.

Please, let me know what you think of those 2 ideas.

[Scaredgirl]

Then I want to talk about score.
The current rates (10 to 19) basically mean that someone who rushes the 2 first Gods has won if the players after him have 1 victory each.
That was Forfeit's fear on the other thread and if by mistake I make 2 Gods a little bit too easy, this could become true.

I don't want the rates to be 1 to 10, cause this would really make the first Gods count for nothing but I think the good choice is somewhere in between.
Something like 4-13 looks good to me. If you kill 3 gods, you're nearly sure to win. If you kill 2 easy gods, there's still a risk that someone beats you afterward.

I also want to suggest another change that, IMHO, would make the challenge more "casual gamer friendly".
The idea is to give points to player who have successfully killed a God, even if it's not the first time. The award would just be 1 point lower than the previous player.
Example:
  First God to fall: Scorpio, kill by Joe --> Joe gets 4 points (with my rating presented above)
  Jack kills Scorpio --> he gets 3 points (Joe's score minus one cause he's second)
     Incarnate falls, killed by Jane --> Jane gets 5 points (max score, cause she's the first to kill him, compared to Joe score is increased by 1 cause it's the second God to fall)
     John kills Incarnate --> he gets 4 points (Jane minus one)
  Mary kills Scorpio --> she gets 2 points (Jack minus one)

And so on until the score for each God reaches 0.

This calculus would be a bit harder (but not that much, with a good table on the wiki it should be pretty clear) and the advantage that I see is here:
Even if you miss the start for some reasons, or if you want to take your time to design good builds, you still have a chance to hit a good score by killing methodically ALL FG.
By being fourth on all victory, you'll get a total score of 55 which is probably much more than someone who was very quick at the beginning but was only able to kill 5 gods.

Please, let me know what you think of those 2 ideas.

I hear you. 10 to 19 is probably not that great. My logic behind it was that the top score would be roughly double the bottom score. Lets try with 4 to 13.

This other idea is something I also considered. I was thinking about a similar system where you could score each False God three times like the medals in the Olympics (10, 9, 8 ). However there are some problems with this kind of scoring.

Imo scoring difference between the first, the second and the third is too small. There has to be more reward in getting there first. Maybe use a system where it's 100%, 50%, 25%? So with the score of 10 it would be 10, 5 and 2. I don't know..

Secondly when the first guy posts his screenshot and his deck, others can copy it which would lead to boring forum stalking. If he doesn't post he deck, it would suck because I think it's interesting to see how the God was beaten. How can we fix this?

[chriskang]

For now, I'll wait for other opinions/ideas:
http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/User:Chriskang/Sandbox/14

[Dragoon]

I definitely like Chris's idea for the scoring (with SG's percentage idea, maybe 100%, 67%, 33%).  As far as posting what deck you won with, you can always do that at the end when the tournament is over.  Maybe you can post a new thread with the winners and we can share our decks and just chat about some of the different strategies in beating the different gods.

As far as posting new false god decks for these championships, how do we submit secret builds?  If I understand it right, by using that spreadsheet's instructions, we're posting it on the wiki for everyone to see.  And what about scores for the god that stands the longest? 

[Scaredgirl]

I definitely like Chris's idea for the scoring (with SG's percentage idea, maybe 100%, 67%, 33%).

Yeah, those percentages might be better. I just wanted to really reward the first guy who kills the God but maybe to go from 100% to 50% is too much.

As far as posting what deck you won with, you can always do that at the end when the tournament is over.

Honestly, I don't think that would work. The problem is that it would be too much work for the player. If I beat multiple Gods, I would have to save 10+ screenshots on my computer for later use and try to remember which deck I used against which God. I would like to see a more simple system.

How about this: the first guy posts the screenshot and the deck he used. Other players can copy his ideas BUT they have to have a different mark? Or maybe they can't use ANY of the elements that the first guy used?

Something like that might work because I just realized that other players can see from the screenshot, what kind of deck the first player used. Copy-paste in inevitable so there has to be some kinds of rules to prevent it.

[Cisco]

just sayin that it probaly takes me a lot longer to put bup a screenshot than others lol So for beein first shouldn´t be a huge advantage against others . The suggested rating by chris is pretty good.

[Cisco]

um with what progr do I open xls??

[Dragoon]

You can use Excel if you have it or Google Docs for free.

[Scaredgirl]

just sayin that it probaly takes me a lot longer to put bup a screenshot than others lol So for beein first shouldn´t be a huge advantage against others . The suggested rating by chris is pretty good.

I'll start a tutorial on how to put up a screenshot. It's really easy and takes a minute.

About the scoring... I really think the first guy needs a bigger reward. Think about it. The first guy who kills the last False God gets 13 points. Then the next guy just copies his deck from the screenshot gets 12 points? 1 point difference. Do you think that is fair?